[0.0] I sketched out a business plan, literally in the Steno notebook.
[4.3] And I created what I knew was going to work.
[8.4] I just knew it in my gut, in my heart.
[10.7] And I started contacting my favorite brands and designers.
[14.6] Hi there.
[15.6] This is her intentional reset, a podcast for women in midlife
[19.5] curious about whether the career they chose 20 years ago
[23.1] still fits.
[24.6] Here from women who've made pivots big and small,
[27.3] discuss the practical realities, the trade-offs,
[30.2] and whether the change was worth it.
[32.8] I'm your host, Molly Woodruff-Earth,
[34.7] and I want to thank you for joining.
[36.8] If you're new here, welcome.
[38.7] I'm glad you found us.
[40.2] And in between episodes, come join us on Instagram
[43.6] and Facebook at her intentional reset.co.
[47.2] That's .co for guests behind the scenes
[50.6] and what's coming next.
[52.7] Now, let's get into today's conversation.
[56.2] Meet Jennifer Conrad. Jennifer is the founder and president of Twigs, a
[61.1] thoughtfully curated boutique with two locations in Madison and Brookfield,
[65.6] Wisconsin. Plus an e-commerce site at shop twigs.com. Before Twigs,
[71.0] Jennifer was a Fed funds and money market trader at Citigroup in New York City
[76.0] with an economics degree from Columbia University. In 2001, she made the move from
[83.0] the New York metro area back to the Midwest with her husband and three young children,
[88.7] a move that happened to fall on September 11. Twigs opened a few months later in January 2002.
[96.4] 24 years in, Jennifer is still running a day-to-day with her dog Otto in the office above the
[103.0] flagship store. I'm so glad to have Jennifer here. This is her intentional reset.
[109.5] Welcome, Jennifer.
[112.6] I have been in a mirror of yours, not only because of this beautiful business that you've
[118.5] created and really respecting you as a businesswoman, but also knowing a little bit more about
[124.2] your career pivot and seeing the successful business that you've grown over the years.
[130.6] Before we dig in, I want listeners to know that if you have ever considered a career
[135.9] pivot completely outside of your field, the story is for you. The story is also for if you
[143.6] are currently in the process of maybe a pivot yourself or maybe a transition and you're wondering,
[151.1] can this endure time? The story is for you. And then lastly, if you are a fashion lover like me,
[160.3] and maybe you just have always been curious, like what is that peak behind the curtain?
[164.5] This story is also for you. So after all of that, Jennifer, thank you so much for being here.
[170.4] Thanks so much for having me Molly. I'm really happy to be here and be able to share my story and
[176.5] hope that maybe it might inspire someone to follow a passion they have and make a pivot in their life that
[183.4] serves them well because I think that's what it's really all about is finding a way to lead our lives in the most
[190.4] authentic and happiest way that really gives us joy every day. And that's a hard
[197.5] thing for every one of us to achieve. There's no question about it. Absolutely.
[202.3] How do you find that joy, but then also raise family and pay the bills? Yes.
[208.4] Yes. Yeah, true. Jennifer, take us all the way back from the beginning before
[213.9] twigs, before you made the move to the Midwest. Just briefly paint us the
[219.3] picture of who you were and what you were doing in New York.
[225.5] So I graduated from college and immediately went into a
[229.7] trading environment that was really challenging. It was with
[234.8] the world's largest bank at the time on the world's largest
[238.8] trading floor at the time. And I was the greenest trader there.
[244.2] I was only 21 when I started and I was there for a handful of
[248.4] years and then circumstances changed and I ended up leaving that trading
[253.7] desk environment and becoming a full-time parent. And then we were living outside
[258.6] the city. I was no longer working. We were raising three little kids outside of
[265.4] New York City in the suburbs. And while it was wonderful and we were still making
[270.2] the most out of the New York lifestyle, it also wasn't necessarily serving our
[275.1] family well. It wasn't the kind of life that we wanted for our kids. And so we decided that we
[280.7] wanted to make a change. And after visiting Madison for my sister's wedding, we felt that that
[287.0] could be the place that would be a wonderful place to raise our family. So very abruptly, I'm a very
[295.8] fast decision maker, which is why I was a good trader. I said, you know what? Let's supply to this
[301.7] incredible school, Madison Country Day School, see if they have room for three kids, they did.
[306.9] Okay. We applied the kids all got in, which would never ever happen with a private school
[312.5] out east. And the reason I wanted the private school environment was because I had these twin boys,
[318.3] and I was so worried that they were going to get pigeonholed where one of them was going to be
[323.6] the bookish one and the other was the athletic one. And I wanted them to be seniors individuals
[328.7] without those stereotypes attached to them.
[331.6] And I loved what that school offered.
[334.1] So we went home back to New Jersey,
[336.2] and I said, we're putting this on the market.
[337.9] Let's see what happens.
[339.3] And so we overpriced it and it sold in one day.
[342.0] And I said, I guess we're moving back to Madison,
[344.2] which is where I had originally grown up at not
[346.0] imagining what in Southern Wisconsin.
[348.2] And it was an interesting time.
[349.8] While the kids were little, I had transitioned
[352.1] from Wall Street to going to culinary school
[355.6] at this amazing school in Lower Manhattan.
[358.4] that is a really interesting piece of this puzzle.
[361.4] The school who was called the French Culinary Institute
[364.2] has subsequently changed its name,
[365.9] but it was designed to be essentially similar
[369.6] to the Culinary Institute of America's two-year program
[372.7] but condensed into a six-month program.
[375.4] And it was designed specifically for professionals
[379.6] who wanted to make a career change.
[381.6] So I was shoulder-shoulder with lawyers, Wall Street, guys,
[386.4] had front traders, mostly men actually,
[389.3] who were high powered, high achieving individuals,
[392.6] highly intellectual individuals
[394.5] who had achieved really good success in their careers,
[397.9] like me and were like,
[399.3] I don't wanna do this anymore.
[400.9] And for me, working in the trading environment,
[404.7] I've had been very aware of the fact that
[407.4] the people who continue to do it for more than about five years
[410.7] or so, it took a toll on your body and your life
[413.7] and your relationships.
[415.2] And I think a lot of these guys
[416.8] found themselves in similar situations.
[418.5] And maybe they had chosen a career path
[420.4] that just wasn't serving them well.
[422.2] They were in practices that weren't bringing them
[426.0] happiness in their lives.
[428.0] And they had a passion for the culinary arts.
[431.1] And so it was a really interesting perspective for me.
[434.7] Yeah.
[435.5] We then moved to Wisconsin.
[437.8] And I still had that idea in my mind
[440.4] of let's do something very different.
[442.0] Obviously I couldn't be a money trader in the Midwest.
[445.1] anywhere outside of New York.
[446.8] And I didn't really want to do anything
[449.2] of the culinary arts and a professional manner.
[451.3] I was doing it for my own personal enrichment.
[454.0] And I wanted to do something entrepreneurial.
[457.1] And the mind blowing circumstance of when we moved
[462.1] was pivotal for me.
[464.2] We happened to move on 9-11.
[467.2] And my husband was back at home with the movers
[470.4] who showed up that morning from Wisconsin.
[473.0] And they had never been to New York City before.
[475.2] And they could see at the top of the World Trade Center
[477.6] from the end of our driveway,
[479.4] which was like this very pastoral,
[481.7] country-fied setting with a horse farm.
[484.3] And it was beautiful countryside.
[487.0] But the attachment to the city was always really important
[490.1] to me because even though I was in this beautiful pastoral
[492.6] setting, I could see the Trade Center right there.
[495.5] And it was my previous life within our insistence for me.
[499.9] And these guys showed up at 7 a.m.
[501.7] and like an hour or later it was just, you know,
[504.1] a tower of smoke.
[506.0] And I was here with the kids, they were in school,
[508.3] and my phone stopped working,
[510.3] my friends phone stopped working,
[511.8] my husband's phone stopped working.
[513.6] So I was detached from everybody who I cared about.
[517.8] I couldn't connect with them.
[519.1] I couldn't find out if they were okay.
[520.8] And I was obviously terribly distraught.
[524.6] Later I found out that I lost a lot of friends that day.
[527.9] And during the day, I was kind of wandering around the city
[532.3] of Madison and altered state of reality.
[536.2] And I was honestly looking for retail therapy,
[539.8] something to distract me from the terrible sense of dread
[545.0] that I was feeling.
[546.7] And at the time, there was the original box store,
[550.1] which subsequently turned into this incredible shop
[552.5] pop phenomenon that we are so fortunate to have coming
[556.1] from the city of Madison.
[557.7] There was that store, which was mostly just jeans and t-shirts and catered to college crowd.
[563.2] And then there were a couple of other stores that no longer exist on state street.
[566.8] And then there was like a really not great department store over at Hildale.
[570.7] There wasn't the kind of shopping that I wanted to see in this city and that I expected
[574.8] to see because Madison is such a well-traveled, well-educated society and community full of
[580.8] people who have lived around the world and around the country.
[583.7] And I was so surprised that there wasn't the kind of retail experience here that I would
[590.2] have expected to find.
[591.9] And so I realized I was seeing an opportunity and I decided to go for it.
[601.1] And while I was drinking coffee and coffee shops and dealing with the reality of what was
[605.9] going on back home, I sketched out a business plan, literally in the like a steno notebook.
[613.0] And I created what I knew was going to work.
[616.7] I just knew it in my gut, in my heart.
[619.4] And I started contacting my favorite brands and designers.
[622.8] And it was actually a weird, strange way.
[625.7] Perfect timing, because none of them knew what was going to happen.
[628.9] The whole country where there was just been this frozen moment of alter reality.
[635.3] And they said, yeah, we don't necessarily care that you don't know what you're doing,
[639.3] that you have no experience in this.
[641.7] that yourself funded and you don't have a business plan and that you don't have a bank supporting
[646.2] you will sell to you. Sure. Why not? Yeah. So I was basically just this woman with a vision
[652.2] and when my phone started working again, I would call my husband and I would say, I know
[656.1] what we're going to do. And he would say, what can you wait until I get home and I'd be like,
[659.4] no, no, it's okay. I'm going to go with the realtor and I'm going to go look at properties
[663.2] today. And then the next day I'd say, hey, I thought I'm just as fat. It's going to be great.
[668.0] And he would be like, can you just wait until I get out there?
[671.2] And I'm like, no, no, no, wait, I'm worried about that.
[673.3] I'll take your event, yes.
[674.3] OK.
[674.8] Yes.
[675.3] And then within a couple of months, we had the doors open
[677.7] and it just took off.
[679.0] And then it just went up.
[680.2] Great from there.
[681.7] Thank you for bringing us back to that moment of September 11,
[685.2] 2001, because it's important that we remember those moments.
[690.9] I see this as a sign of your personality
[693.8] of how in that moment of grief, how you are taking action
[700.0] and seeing that vision instead,
[703.0] you can't just sit in fear, correct me?
[706.6] That's wrong.
[709.2] No, I think that's true.
[710.9] I think it's true.
[711.6] It's interesting.
[712.4] In my earlier days, especially, I think
[714.9] I was a very risk tolerant person.
[718.0] And I would do my own risk analysis
[721.3] and determined whether or not something was a good idea.
[725.4] And if I determined that the risk was relatively minimal,
[731.0] I would accept the risk and move forward.
[733.3] And that was just how I was inherently built.
[737.4] And I was very unusual within my family that way.
[742.0] I think my whole family looked at me like,
[743.5] what did you come from?
[744.4] Because we don't do that here.
[746.2] I don't know what's wrong with you.
[747.6] Which is why I think I was like 12
[749.1] when I started planning my move to New York.
[751.3] I was like, no, I didn't work for me.
[752.8] I got to go someplace where people move faster
[754.9] and things happen faster.
[756.0] I got to go there.
[757.4] So far it's worked out okay.
[759.6] Although you throw a couple of major curve falls in
[764.4] like pandemic and the great recession.
[768.2] And it's been a wild ride.
[770.6] And I don't want to get too far ahead of myself
[772.2] over my skis here in our conversation,
[773.9] but I do think one of the ways I was able to survive
[778.4] both of those particular incidents is that
[781.8] I'm different than a lot of other business owners
[784.6] who do what I do within this industry
[786.8] in the sense that I have never looked at this
[790.6] as a hobby or something that I was doing
[794.0] because I wanted to buy pretty things wholesale,
[796.4] which is unfortunately for better or worse,
[799.0] something that happens a lot in this industry.
[801.3] I've always looked at it as a business
[803.7] and built really on the same framework
[807.4] that I used to apply to what I did as a trader.
[811.7] It was maintaining margins and just very fundamental
[816.0] business practice.
[817.4] And then really, it was also that I was always big enough
[821.8] to survive but small enough to pivot.
[824.4] But storm came, you could turn the bow where you needed it
[828.6] to be to avert the worst of it, the center of the storm.
[833.3] You're still gonna get hit by the outer rings of that hurricane
[836.5] for sure.
[837.5] But if you can avoid the center of the storm and move in a slightly different direction
[842.0] and change a few things about how you're doing things, how you're working, who you're
[847.0] working with, that kind of thing you can survive.
[850.5] Ways to survive is number one, always appreciating the work that the people do who are working
[856.6] with you because you can't do anything on your own.
[860.5] Like literally nothing.
[861.5] You can have a vision on your own.
[863.4] can have a plan of where to go in the future.
[866.4] But the people who are working with you
[868.7] and are showing up every day are the people
[871.2] who I am most grateful for.
[873.0] And they are the ones who help execute those visions
[876.4] and build my business and honor the business
[879.6] and honor my incredibly loyal, wonderful customers.
[882.9] And that just means everything to me.
[885.6] I would do anything for any one of them.
[888.2] Yeah.
[889.1] It makes me really, really, really proud and happy
[891.9] that 25 years into this, I have roughly 30 employees
[896.6] and a good number of full-time employees,
[900.0] women who are going through pregnancies and deliveries
[904.5] and we're able to give them 401Ks and health plans.
[909.0] And I mean, that makes me just so happy.
[911.6] And we're all so supportive of each other.
[913.8] And that's just the icing on a really nice cupcake.
[918.6] Yeah, and that's one of the things that I've noticed.
[921.4] Well, let me back up.
[923.0] When I first moved from Seattle to Madison,
[925.6] everything that you're seeing with making that transition
[928.4] and being a little surprised with the lack of options
[931.2] in Madison, I felt that when I moved until I found twigs.
[935.8] And that was 15 years ago.
[938.8] And then to see how when I still go back,
[941.6] because I don't live in Madison anymore,
[943.7] but to still see some of the same employees
[946.2] that I've seen since 15 years ago,
[949.2] that's incredible, especially in the fashion industry,
[952.4] the retail industry where you just don't have that longevity.
[956.1] So that is something that I do want us to talk a little bit more
[959.8] in depth about to your point.
[961.9] You've created a successful business,
[964.5] but you're also doing something to make sure
[966.5] that you have that employee retention
[968.6] and you're sharing the success of your business
[971.5] with your employees too,
[973.0] with being able to provide those for a one case.
[975.5] So what you have definitely is special.
[978.8] I do want to bring it back to when you first set out
[982.7] back in 2001, you had that vision.
[985.9] Were you ever interested in fashion
[989.0] in retail prior to this?
[990.8] Or did you truly just see the need?
[994.4] I was and only as a consumer, to be honest.
[998.1] I never took fashion as an industry seriously.
[1001.1] I always thought that it was superfluous
[1003.1] and just for non-serious people,
[1005.6] which was very judgmental on my part, to be honest.
[1008.1] And once I got into it, I realized that wasn't the case at all.
[1011.5] It's a serious and industry as any other.
[1014.5] But it's funny, I was just telling a friend this morning
[1017.2] actually about how ironically,
[1020.0] like when I was in high school,
[1021.6] the money I had was from waitressing babysitting.
[1024.2] I wasn't that privileged girl
[1025.7] who had a bank account to afford a great wardrobe.
[1029.7] And I was not at all the popular girl in high school.
[1033.3] I kind of hated high school.
[1035.2] I was not a pom pom girl.
[1037.0] I wasn't an athlete.
[1038.0] I was the girl who barely showed up
[1040.1] and was dating a 25 year old guy out of school.
[1042.9] And everybody was like, who is this girl?
[1045.6] And so it was not popular, but yet when senior year,
[1049.6] whatever that silly quiz came around
[1052.1] that everybody was supposed to vote on,
[1054.0] surprisingly, all of my peers voted me best rest.
[1057.1] And I was like, okay, this is weird to me.
[1058.9] Because I was the girl who was Molly Ringwald
[1061.4] back in the 80s, like holding together interesting outfits
[1064.2] from vintage shops and inspired by really cool British punk bands.
[1069.8] And that was me.
[1071.3] So I guess you could say, yeah,
[1073.3] I was definitely interested in fashion,
[1075.3] but I never really thought about it.
[1077.3] And now I derive so much happiness and joy out of it.
[1080.8] I love seeing what people are doing.
[1084.9] And I love being able to bring things
[1088.4] that are from other parts of the world to Madison,
[1092.2] because that is Madison.
[1093.6] It's people from other parts of the world coming to live here
[1096.6] for the university and for biotech.
[1099.0] And it's just such a cool environment.
[1102.0] And Brookfield is similar that way.
[1104.4] You've got these dynamic, interesting people
[1106.8] who travel all over the place.
[1108.9] And everybody loves hearing the stories
[1111.0] behind why it's at twigs,
[1112.7] because there is a story behind it.
[1114.2] It's not just there for the sake of being there.
[1116.9] I really do carefully curate things.
[1119.6] And it brings me an enormous amount of joy to do it.
[1122.0] I've had such a great year so far this year of travel
[1126.4] and everywhere I've gone,
[1127.9] I've carefully picked up some ideas
[1130.0] and some new designers and one of them
[1133.1] is John Hardy's daughter, Karina Hardy.
[1136.0] I was in Bali in January and I met with her
[1139.5] and we're gonna be carrying her things in the store soon.
[1143.5] And her jewelry is beautiful.
[1146.2] And she lives in this Nirvana in Bali.
[1150.5] And when I went to meet her, her dad and mom
[1153.6] or on the other side of the room,
[1154.9] just kind of chilling and hanging out.
[1156.6] And I'm just like, this is amazing.
[1158.1] This is so cool.
[1159.2] And to be able to bring that back with me
[1161.4] is really just a lot of fun.
[1163.2] And I tried to do that wherever I don't.
[1165.1] Same way, my designers will have a spring collection
[1169.5] that's inspired by a trip they took some place in the world.
[1172.1] And then they'll choose colors and create patterns
[1175.3] and things based on those experiences.
[1177.7] And it's fun for me to be able to explain that and share it with customers in the store
[1183.4] when they are looking at something.
[1185.4] And it's a beautiful pattern or beautiful fabric.
[1188.1] And it's really wonderful to be able to say, oh, let me tell you about why Ola Johnson
[1192.1] made this.
[1193.1] She was on her trip in Spain and she saw this gorgeous, whatever.
[1196.7] And it's just, it's really fun.
[1198.1] And I'm glad I didn't open a wild bird's unlimited franchise.
[1201.0] This is so much more fun.
[1202.6] I love the reference to John Harding.
[1205.8] I can't wait to see what his daughter is creating.
[1207.9] I didn't realize that she was following
[1210.0] in her father's footsteps.
[1211.0] And I haven't heard John Hardy in a while.
[1213.5] And I'm like, I don't know if he's one.
[1215.0] Because I was obsessed with his watch.
[1216.9] I know.
[1217.8] It was so fun.
[1218.2] Yes, it is really fun.
[1220.2] So back to your store initially.
[1223.5] You had success.
[1224.8] And it was mainly focused on handbags and jewelry.
[1229.2] And then eventually you moved to your flagship store
[1233.2] in Madison, is that when you started also expanding
[1236.9] to include the clothing as well?
[1240.1] It is.
[1240.9] Yeah, we had two storefronts on a shopping street
[1244.5] in Madison, called Monroe Street.
[1246.4] And I love being part of that neighborhood
[1247.8] and I love being on a shopping street so much.
[1250.8] But eventually it became clear that the only way
[1253.1] we could truly grow was to change our business plan
[1256.4] and accept the significant costs involved
[1260.2] with being in what is often referred to as a lifestyle development,
[1264.4] lifestyle center or mall environment,
[1267.5] because we needed the consistent foot traffic,
[1271.0] and we needed the freedom from parking issues
[1273.6] and snow related additions.
[1275.6] And so we needed to change the business plan
[1279.0] in the sense that we needed to accept
[1280.9] significantly different overhead costs,
[1283.9] both in rent and in payroll costs,
[1286.4] because we were now committed to at least
[1290.0] that requires us to be open 362 days a year from 10 a.m. until at certain times of the year,
[1297.4] 9 p.m. and so that requires a very different type of overhead expense. So it meant that the
[1305.4] numbers were going to have to change. Again, as a business owner, you've got to do your own risk
[1310.3] assessment and I would highly recommend that if that isn't something you feel comfortable doing,
[1316.1] you seek a professional to help you figure out because that's very important.
[1321.2] You can't just take a risk like that without really having a good understanding of how much revenue
[1327.5] you're going to need to bring in to be able to offset those costs.
[1331.7] There have been times, actually quite frequently, I will work with some of my vendors to
[1338.0] talk to them about my overhead costs and why I am asking for a discount,
[1345.1] which is not something that an independent retailer,
[1348.6] a specialty store with only two storefronts,
[1351.6] typically is able to achieve.
[1353.8] But because of our volume with some of
[1356.3] our most important vendors,
[1357.8] I'm able to negotiate that,
[1360.1] which is a huge deal and we're open all the time.
[1363.2] So I'm able to go to them and explain,
[1366.3] listen, my overhead cost of this in order to be able to work successfully
[1371.6] together in this partnership,
[1372.9] I'm going to need a little something from you to be able to make this work.
[1378.2] Those are the important things that I think, depending on what your business is,
[1381.8] you're a small business owner going and asking for things and trying to negotiate something
[1387.5] that you might perceive as being not tenable, at least try to do it because you might surprise
[1393.6] yourself.
[1394.6] It might take a little bit, it might take you a few years in business to prove yourself,
[1399.0] Surprisingly, we've got a couple of really important big name vendors where we are in their top 10
[1405.0] Independence for us in the country, which is really amazing.
[1408.6] And so they're able to be really good partners with us and help us make sure that we're going to be able to continue that status with them.
[1416.8] That's something that I think a lot of small business owners need to keep in mind that it's okay to
[1422.5] ask for
[1424.5] support that way.
[1426.0] Right, and you still do it with the business lens. You're not asking for a discount just for the sake of the discount.
[1431.8] You're saying, hey, look, this is my overhead. I'm not trying to screw you over, but I want to work with you,
[1437.4] but this is the reality of my situation. So I think that's very helpful.
[1442.3] At what point from the one store, what had to be true for you to then decide to open a second location,
[1450.4] the Brookfield location and for listeners, that location is west of Milwaukee.
[1455.5] Probably about an hour and a half away from Madison.
[1459.6] Yeah, just a little under that.
[1461.4] This is another piece of advice I would love to offer everyone who is considering opening
[1467.5] their own business or maybe already has one and is considering opening an extension of that.
[1473.1] If there's someone in your industry who has been doing something similar to yours a little bit
[1479.2] longer and they're willing to open a conversation with you and they're not gatekeeping that
[1485.7] kind of information perspective. If you can open up that conversation, give it a try because
[1493.6] what we did was we went and talked to somebody else who had opened multiple stores that were
[1499.4] similar to ours and we said, how do you do it? When do you know it's right to open a second store?
[1505.1] because we just knew that if we could replicate what we had in Madison in another similar type of
[1511.6] setting that it would be worthwhile, but it was daunting. My kids were still pretty little
[1516.9] and I thought, I don't know how we're going to pull this off. Even only an hour and change away,
[1522.1] like how do you staff it and make sure everything is okay. I had just gotten to a point where I
[1528.3] was able to step back from being on the floor all the time, which I'd still love to be. I really
[1534.6] would, but I also know that there's just no way I can. And it was also really important
[1538.6] too that I knew that the measure of success of the business was related to my inability
[1545.2] to not be present. It's not a viable business if it requires me to be there all the
[1550.0] time. And it's not replicatable if it requires my presence. I got into a point where we
[1556.2] just had a really strong staff and I felt like we could replicate it and with some good
[1563.3] planning and a little bit of luck make it work. And we spent a lot of time looking at the numbers.
[1568.6] And again, doing that risk analysis. And just said, okay, let's just do it. Let's just bite
[1574.7] the bullet. And the other retailer who we consulted with said, yeah, you just got to jump in.
[1580.2] The second store, that second location is a big deal. But you just got to do it. And then once
[1586.0] you've done that, three and four are all going to seem so much more achievable. And I do think
[1592.3] that they're right about that. So that's where I think if you can talk to somebody who's been
[1596.0] down that road that you're looking to start trekking on, it's really, really helpful.
[1601.4] Yes. Is it kind of like having children going from one to two is really hard? But then
[1605.8] the dream is going from two to two. Although I can't speak to that because I had two right
[1609.8] off the bat. I mean, I was just barely grasping the idea of being a parent and then they told me
[1615.5] I was having twins and I was like, okay, wait, that's not fair. I don't know what's happening right
[1619.8] You mentioned before that small businesses you have to be agile you have to be able to pivot quickly based on circumstances outside of your control.
[1628.8] I know that you mentioned,
[1630.2] John Covid, that was a time that Twigs had to pivot.
[1634.4] Can you talk about how you did that?
[1637.1] Yeah, that was really tricky for everybody.
[1640.8] It's interesting because I have a really close friend who owns a chain of retail stores that are huge stores.
[1647.2] So privately owned, she has 42 of them.
[1650.1] And they were labeled essential.
[1652.3] She and I always like trade information.
[1654.6] And so it was interesting to see how she was managing the process
[1657.9] and then how we had to manage it
[1660.0] because we were not essential.
[1661.8] For us, the shop online and pick up outside the store
[1665.3] was very important.
[1667.0] It was critical too.
[1668.2] Because basically what I was looking at
[1671.0] when I walked into the store
[1672.7] after everything shut down.
[1674.2] And I just looked, both stores had roughly $300,000 worth
[1680.0] of inventory that the vast majority of which
[1683.7] was all aging by the minute.
[1686.4] So what I did was we had always had a website that had
[1690.6] been actually really quite sophisticated.
[1693.6] We had built one probably 15 years before the pandemic hit.
[1698.3] Actually, we were really early on in that game.
[1701.7] But the thing was for us, what happened during the pandemic for a lot of independent business
[1706.9] owners in the retail business was that Shopify made it really easy for people to build
[1711.5] out a Shopify site and be able to sell online within a couple of weeks of creating a site.
[1719.3] And so that was happening very rapidly within the industry.
[1723.6] And search engines were able to work with those sites very easily.
[1729.0] And so those websites were successfully selling and that allowed all of those retailers
[1734.9] to stay alive and keep their doors open, which was an amazing thing.
[1739.6] For us, what was problematic was that our website was too sophisticated and a little too
[1744.2] elegant for those search engines to properly interface with.
[1748.5] And we were seeing a problem there.
[1751.4] And so we immediately, within a week or so, of the full shutdown, realized that we needed
[1757.8] to actually take ourselves from like a graduate level to like a middle school level because
[1763.2] that's where Shopify was at the time. But it was what needed to happen to be able to keep
[1769.2] the search engine optimization where we needed it to be. And so we did that and it was weird.
[1774.8] It felt really, really weird. And then we also of course were able to take advantage of the
[1779.7] Shop online and pick up outside the store. It was a crazy time. It was really, really, really
[1785.3] really crazy and I hope that never happens again.
[1787.9] Yeah, but you survived.
[1789.5] Yeah, that's a really good example of where you have to think
[1792.6] on your feet, don't allow yourself to get caught up in any
[1796.3] sort of doomsday spiral and just be like, okay, this is what
[1799.1] we're going to do next.
[1800.5] Yeah, and you mentioned before though, you're good at making
[1802.7] those fast decisions or.
[1804.0] Yeah, thankfully it's like a natural reaction for me.
[1808.4] So looking back now, though, you have been doing this for 24
[1813.0] years doing this on your own terms. How do you feel now versus when you initially started
[1820.8] out not knowing where this was all going to turn out? I feel so good about the fact that
[1827.4] what I've created has provided just a lifestyle for the people who work with us and love
[1835.0] it so much, the fact that we are able to give women a successful career path that makes them happy.
[1844.4] We have two teams and the two stores that interface with each other, so really it's a collective
[1849.0] full team who just all really enjoy what they do for a living. And that isn't always the case
[1856.2] in retail. Sometimes there's a lot of infighting and a lot of competition that's unhealthy, and it's
[1861.3] It's one of the reasons we've never worked on any sort of commission.
[1865.5] We never have ever done that.
[1867.1] What we do is we do goals that are collective goals for everyone to achieve together.
[1873.3] And it's just like icing on the cake goals.
[1876.5] And it's really nice to see people working together to try to make those things happen.
[1881.6] It makes me happy to see people being happy to come to work.
[1884.8] I see that as being a huge success.
[1887.3] And it also makes me really happy if somebody is coming in from out of town and they've
[1891.0] never been in our store before.
[1892.4] And they walk in.
[1893.0] And they're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
[1895.6] Never been able to find all of these brands all in one store
[1898.3] together before.
[1899.2] Like I live in Fairfield, Connecticut, or Menlo Park,
[1903.2] or wherever.
[1904.1] And they're like, and I can't find all this in one place.
[1906.3] This is incredible.
[1907.2] Can you please open a store in my hometown?
[1909.3] And I'm like, yeah, that's great.
[1910.7] Tell me where I'll start working on that.
[1912.6] Or if I'm the person, there's so many people
[1915.4] who move to Madison from other parts of the world,
[1919.0] the country and they'll come in and they're like, oh my gosh, it's the real world.
[1923.0] Wait, what happened?
[1924.0] Yeah, I didn't know you were here.
[1925.0] This is amazing.
[1926.0] And that's one of the biggest compliments somebody could ever painting.
[1928.7] I am just like so happy to hear that.
[1931.1] Oh, what you have created is such a beautiful place.
[1934.6] Thank you.
[1935.6] I said you were talking about leadership.
[1937.8] You mentioned before you have approximate 30 employees.
[1942.0] Let's talk about we know who's in the front of the house or in the store, but help us
[1946.6] understand behind the scenes what your role is and who else is on your team to help you
[1952.5] scale everything that you have today.
[1955.7] I'm President CEO. I have four management team members to an each store who just keep things
[1963.1] humming and they're fantastic and they both oversee a really great team of associates.
[1969.2] Sometimes college students sometimes women in their 50s and 60s who are like hey I want this
[1975.0] discount and I love these clothes and this is fantastic. And they're having fun hanging out with
[1980.4] the younger girl. It's just like this really great mix. Then I've got this incredible woman
[1986.3] who works with me who is my director of Stoleers, but she does so much more than that. She's my
[1991.1] fellow buyer. When this company continues to grow, she's gonna be my C.O.L. for sure because she's
[1997.0] a chief of staff. She's everything and she is poised to grow this company with me and really make
[2004.2] some amazing things happen in the next five years. And then she and I together oversee
[2010.6] two young women in their 20s who do an incredible job of all of our creative content. These two
[2019.0] creative team members do everything from graphic design to our own in-house photography,
[2024.9] which is incredible. So we have a studio in our office in Madison and every single thing that we get
[2030.7] in gets photographed and then edited offsite
[2034.4] and then tweaked and loaded up on the website
[2037.5] with a good solid description.
[2039.3] Then the four of us work on digital marketing together,
[2043.3] which is this crazy animal that we're all still trying
[2048.4] to figure out.
[2049.2] The two young women on our team have gone to take
[2052.3] a certificate course in digital marketing.
[2054.9] And it's nice because we can support that
[2056.9] and we can support continuing education
[2059.4] that both benefits them as individuals,
[2061.9] but also the company as well.
[2064.5] Let's talk about what is your leadership style?
[2067.0] Jennifer.
[2067.8] It's interesting.
[2068.3] My leadership style has always been very hands off.
[2072.8] I like to hire good people who are very competent
[2077.8] and then stand back and let them do what needs to be done,
[2081.9] oversee from a distance.
[2084.1] And if they need something for me, they come to me.
[2087.8] and we work through problems together.
[2092.2] And it works really well.
[2094.4] I've discovered that people thrive when they have
[2098.4] that sort of light-handed leadership,
[2101.5] and they feel that they've got the support they need,
[2106.1] and they've got that vote of confidence,
[2108.4] that they are able to do their job and do it well.
[2112.2] And I think that the team aspect of a workforce
[2117.5] It's so important.
[2119.1] When everybody understands what part of the puzzle they fit into and what role they play,
[2126.1] and that's all really clear and your transparent with them about where things are at and where
[2132.5] things are going, everybody feels just really good about where they are within the company and what
[2138.2] their role is.
[2139.6] And it's just a really positive environment.
[2142.7] I'm really pleased to be able to say that and know that it's something that we've worked hard to cultivate and to protect.
[2151.9] And knowing what it's like working in other companies, that's a hard thing to achieve and maintain.
[2157.4] And I really am so proud of everybody on my team for doing that, for going the extra mile to support each other.
[2163.5] And I think that kind of leadership comes from the top.
[2165.9] This episode is brought to you by her intentional resets,
[2169.7] paid for sponsorship, supporting independent women owned businesses.
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[2219.8] because taking care of yourself is always worth it.
[2224.6] This is a good time to ask,
[2226.0] what are your future goals for Twigs?
[2228.2] We are poised right now to open two additional stores
[2233.0] in the next three to four years.
[2236.0] I would like to say even more aggressive timeline with that.
[2239.2] I would like to probably make that closer to 24 months.
[2244.0] I have a couple of locations in mind
[2246.2] and I just think that what we are doing
[2249.6] is a unique offering to anyone who is considering creating something.
[2256.1] The uniqueness of what it is that you want to create and offer is really important.
[2261.4] It feels like it's hard to hard to achieve that every day or every year because there's just so much going on.
[2267.6] And people are so creative and so good at meeting the customers needs.
[2272.8] For us, what's unique about Twigs is that we have this incredible designer matrix and we
[2281.0] combine that with really good customer service and we do things like free gift wrapping and free
[2288.0] shipping for orders over $200.
[2291.2] And we offer in store and for anybody calling in online as well some really good personal
[2298.7] styling advice.
[2300.0] And I think there is a need for that in so many communities around the country.
[2305.2] I would love to open at least two more stores that I would independently own that could
[2312.2] potentially be in some way franchised because I think about stores like Intermix that doesn't
[2319.6] exist anymore really.
[2321.0] And a couple of other stores similar to us where it's a multi-brand store with a really
[2326.5] intentional curation and stuff.
[2329.3] are that many of us because it's a hard thing to do.
[2332.1] Yeah.
[2332.4] So yeah, I would love to replicate art.
[2335.2] And I've got at least another 10 years left in me.
[2337.8] So I can't wait to continue to follow
[2341.6] to see where these other stores go.
[2343.6] And the idea of going even bigger
[2346.1] beyond opening up a couple more stores
[2347.9] to a franchise that is all very exciting things to hear.
[2351.5] Jennifer, I love how you are saying
[2353.8] that you are curating pieces for the stores, sometimes around
[2358.2] the world, and there's always a story behind it.
[2361.0] So help us understand the difference between curating and
[2365.9] buying and where does the art come in for you?
[2370.6] But begins with finding artists who I think have something special to
[2375.3] offer. And then once you've looked at their collection for a season,
[2381.4] choosing what you think is the best of that. So you're looking at a subset of
[2386.3] in your choosing something that you think is not only their best effort, but also something that is
[2392.7] going to speak to your customer the best. So if I'm thinking of like Ola Johnson, she's one of my
[2398.9] favorite designers. She is a true artist and she's one of the CFDA award for multiple categories
[2405.4] that she creates, Ota, ready to wear and her footwear. And she'll do a pattern and she'll do it in
[2413.0] like three different color ways. And I love being motivated or inspired by the pattern and then
[2419.8] choosing the color way that I think is going to be the best for maybe the climate in Wisconsin.
[2425.2] We're not Palm Beach, you know, we're going to be looking for something a little darker perhaps
[2429.9] or something a little more subtle perhaps. And then that same designer will do a dress and a top
[2438.4] and a skirt and maybe a pant as well.
[2441.4] And so then it's fun to be able to think,
[2443.1] how does my customer wear something like this?
[2446.0] If you're living a life in Wisconsin,
[2448.4] you maybe don't need the fancy dress.
[2450.4] Maybe what you want is the top and the skirt
[2453.2] or probably more likely the top and the pant.
[2455.7] And then you can pair that top back to a pair of jeans.
[2458.4] And then maybe if you want the full look,
[2460.3] you get both pieces and then you've got the ability
[2463.8] to just toss on or sweater with those pants.
[2466.2] You're buying it really for not just the people who are coming into your store, but also
[2472.2] just the people who are living around you and are living a very specific type of lifestyle
[2477.8] based on our climate, our culture.
[2480.5] We live a pretty casual, chic lifestyle here.
[2484.3] There isn't a single restaurant that you can't go to in a pair of jeans if you want.
[2488.8] And even if you're going to a country club or something, you can still wear jeans, but
[2492.1] they're not gonna be ripped and they're not gonna have a raw edge.
[2495.6] So you take that into consideration.
[2498.1] And it's just a lot of fun.
[2499.2] I mean, it's a lot of work and it's really time consuming.
[2502.9] You also have to take into consideration your budget.
[2505.2] And also the budget of the people who I'm you're selling to.
[2508.4] It's a lot of number crunching.
[2510.3] It's a lot of thoughtful consideration as to what works well.
[2514.6] And what is worth the time and attention of your customer.
[2519.6] And what is worth them considering making an investment in adding to their wardrobe?
[2526.2] Because everything is an investment, even like a simple button down.
[2530.6] If it's Italian cotton or flannel and it's being sewn in LA, it is a lot more expensive
[2538.2] than the Chinese-made version that you're going to find at H&M or Target or whatever.
[2545.2] So you've got to choose wisely and choose something that somebody is going to be able
[2549.4] to get a lot of wear out of and they're going to be able to understand why it costs what
[2553.8] it does and what makes it special.
[2556.2] Yes.
[2557.2] I've heard you talk about that your twigs customers, you curate to three generations of women.
[2564.2] Can you describe what those styles are?
[2567.8] Yeah, absolutely.
[2569.2] It's so much fun watching that happen.
[2571.9] you'll see a grandmother and a daughter coming in.
[2575.5] And the daughter might be high school age,
[2578.2] and she's gonna go straight to the aviator nation sweatsuit.
[2581.4] She's gonna try to convince her mom or a grandma
[2583.7] to get one of those for her.
[2585.3] And the mom is maybe she's looking for jeans too,
[2587.4] and she's maybe looking at A-Goldie,
[2589.0] which is like the sister brand to citizens of humanity.
[2592.1] And mom might be looking at the citizens jeans,
[2595.2] or maybe a really great pair of Neelie jeans, Neelie low tan.
[2599.1] And so the mom will have the slightly more sophisticated look in mind and want something a little bit more special and the grandmother
[2607.4] She's looking at jewelry and sweaters and a great handbag and it's all happening together and at the same time
[2614.9] And it's so much fun to watch each find their own special things
[2618.0] But then also ask each other for advice and share dressing rooms and it's really really fun
[2623.4] It's one of those moments that I think everybody who works at twigs really enjoys
[2628.6] And it's fun to find those pieces, but that's another thing that we take into consideration
[2633.6] when we're doing the buying those things that are multi-generational.
[2638.0] Really speak to us.
[2639.2] And then it's important to us.
[2640.2] Because I don't ever want anybody to come in and feel like, oh, this is too young for
[2645.5] me.
[2646.5] That's not a feeling I want anybody to have.
[2648.7] Yes.
[2649.7] So paint us a picture of what fashion rig or a buying trip actually looks like.
[2656.0] It's actually kind of grueling with a lot of fun to run in, so people always ask, so how
[2660.9] was it?
[2661.9] And I'm like, it was, we worked hard and played hard essentially, which is so New York,
[2666.3] you know?
[2667.3] We do all of our buying in New York, mostly just because all of our brands, they show
[2671.0] it fashion week in New York for the most part, and they all have showrooms in New York.
[2675.2] A few weeks later, they'll be showing an LA and in February, that sounds really appealing.
[2680.1] I would go there, but by then you have fewer choices
[2683.7] and not every brand is there.
[2686.3] So that's why I just continue to always do it all in New York.
[2690.3] And also because I still have my friends there
[2692.4] and I get to keep in touch with everybody,
[2694.1] which is really great.
[2695.6] But it starts with meetings going from showroom to showroom
[2699.8] as early as seven o'clock in the morning
[2701.5] and getting back to Brooklyn where I always stay
[2704.6] as late as seven o'clock at night.
[2706.5] And then it's like a game of Jenga.
[2708.8] And I have a very puzzle oriented brain.
[2711.0] So it works really well for me.
[2712.3] And thankfully, Leah does too.
[2714.1] So we're just like always piecing things together.
[2716.8] Because the amount of information that you are soaking up
[2719.5] and taking in is astronomical.
[2722.1] We don't write orders when we're there.
[2724.0] We come back and then we start piecing it all together.
[2726.5] And we're looking at like five or six different denim brands.
[2730.9] And you've got to make sure that you get everything,
[2733.4] but not too much.
[2734.2] You can't have too much overlap, because that
[2736.1] be a bad financial decision. You need to make sure everything melds together well from a purely
[2742.5] logistical standpoint. It's also really helpful that I used to live in New York and I really
[2746.4] understand the city well because I plan and choreograph where we're going from one point into
[2752.5] the next knowing how long that appointment is going to take and then how long it's going to take
[2756.9] to walk to the next place and then how long that one's going to take. But then you also have to
[2760.9] make sure that those people have those times open in their calendar. That you don't have itself
[2766.0] is a whole job. I've often thought I could offer that service to another company and charge for it if I have time.
[2771.7] But I don't. But it's a lot. And then, but it's fun too, because then we get a chance to go to a couple of shows.
[2777.8] We usually always make it to the La Jans show and to Ola Johnson's show and a couple of others.
[2783.3] It used to actually be even more fun when Bryant Park was home to all of the runway shows. And that was really cool.
[2789.9] The Garvin district is still alive, but it's been hit hard and the designers are now all over the city.
[2796.6] Thanks for painting us a picture and for those that are listening if you're curious about some more
[2801.7] behind the scenes of Jen's buying trips, you guys do post those sometimes on your Instagram account and those are fun to see.
[2809.3] Is there a trend that surprised you that took off that you were like interesting?
[2814.9] There's a few actually. It's weird how 80s are back. I cannot get used to the socks with loafers,
[2822.4] a look, or the socks halfway up the calf with sneakers. Look, and I don't even honestly think it
[2829.3] looks good on young girls either. I know they're all doing it, but if we decided to do that,
[2833.7] you guys would laugh at us. Chops your luck. Yeah, it'll come and go, thankfully, and that'll be over.
[2839.5] I am shocked that parachute pants are back, but I'm also here for it. In fact, I'm wearing a pair right now.
[2845.5] It's kind of fun. It's kind of wild. I'm like, oh, God, this is happening. We're in the 80s.
[2850.6] All right, Jen, let's transition to some of the practical considerations,
[2854.8] starting with some financial considerations as a business owner. What is your philosophy on
[2862.6] paying yourself? And if it was maybe different at the beginning versus how it is now?
[2867.4] I was in it somewhat unique position where I was able to not pay myself and take a salary
[2874.6] for the first few years.
[2877.2] And so everything was just put back into the business to keep it healthy and let it grow.
[2882.7] I do think that if I were advising someone who was starting a company that it probably
[2888.9] is important to factor in a salary for oneself as the founder or owner, because realistically
[2897.1] you need to pay your bills. You need to be able to pay for health insurance for yourself.
[2901.3] You need to live a life that's reasonable. And the thing is, let's say your goal was to sell
[2908.2] your business. Anybody interested in buying your business is going to need to know what it
[2913.1] would cost to take somebody in to hire somebody to do your job. And that is a big consideration.
[2920.3] You have to pay somebody $100,000, let's say, to do your job. That's going to affect
[2924.5] the value of the company. So yeah, you've got to think about that too. I think it is important to
[2930.3] not take a crazy salary, be measured, be conservative, but take it into consideration, factor it
[2937.7] into the costs. Excellent point. You mentioned that part of the reason why you've had long employee
[2944.5] retention is because of the team that you've built and you alluded to some wonderful benefits
[2950.5] for your employees, can you talk about what you've been able to offer?
[2955.1] Yeah, it started with a 401k savings plan or we matched. That was really a big step for us that we
[2961.6] were really proud of and happy to be able to do. And then just this year we were able to create our
[2969.1] own health plan, health care coverage. Prior to that, we were giving our employees stipends towards
[2976.1] their own healthcare plans through the marketplace,
[2979.8] which was another way for us to help support
[2982.1] and offset those costs because healthcare is so expensive.
[2985.2] It's a way that we can respect the work that they do
[2988.4] show them how much they matter to us,
[2991.1] but also remain competitive.
[2992.9] I wanna make sure that people will understand
[2995.0] that I want them to want to work for us
[2997.3] more than a national chain store.
[3000.7] And personally, it's a really great feeling as an owner
[3004.3] to be able to change things for the individual at hand,
[3008.9] especially because we're a woman owned and operated company.
[3011.9] Women have a lot of difficulties that come up in their lives,
[3016.8] whether it be children who catch a virus and need to get picked up from school.
[3021.7] And my gosh, I have three kids who are now grown adults,
[3025.0] but I went through that and it's really important that we are flexible
[3028.7] and we respect the important nature of being a mother.
[3033.3] You need to be there for your child when all of a sudden they need you and we take that really seriously.
[3038.6] So we support our staff in that way.
[3041.1] Yes. And the employees pay it back to you with their loyalty.
[3046.3] So that's great to hear.
[3048.1] I do want to ask if there's a woman listening right now who's considering a real industry jump.
[3054.8] What would you tell her about making a career change in an unrelated field?
[3059.4] I think if your motivation is to leave the job in the industry that you're in, take the
[3068.3] time that you need to soul search and find something that speaks to you.
[3076.0] And that may not be an easy process.
[3079.5] You may need to engage a therapist.
[3082.8] Take a lot of girlfriends out for coffee, but have them help you drill down to what it
[3086.5] is that makes you happy in what could potentially lead to a viable career.
[3092.3] It's important that if you're going to make that jump, you do it into something that nourishes
[3098.2] a part of your soul.
[3099.9] And there is something out there for every one of us, I think.
[3104.0] And then there's going to be that leap of faith.
[3105.7] And the risk assessment is always going to be there too.
[3107.8] You got to figure out, am I going to make the same amount of money?
[3110.6] If not, how is that going to affect the rest of my life, the rest of my family and that
[3114.6] sort of thing?
[3115.6] So I'm sacrificing a lot how am I going to make that up?
[3118.9] Or is it okay that I'm not making as much?
[3121.5] Because I might be so much happier.
[3123.2] There's so much to take into consideration in that area.
[3126.4] I have a daughter who is going through
[3127.8] the adenance spend for a couple of years.
[3130.1] It's kind of like the organic food situation.
[3132.6] Okay, I'm going to spend some extra money
[3134.1] on some organic vegetables and fruit today.
[3136.7] But I'm not going to spend as much on medical bills
[3138.8] down the road, probably.
[3141.0] And the same is true for if you're working in
[3144.3] environment that is best case scenario, just not serving your needs and not bringing you joy.
[3150.4] Worst case scenario, maybe toxic and really terrible. Either way, you should probably be thinking
[3155.9] about what can I do with the rest of my career that's going to make me happier and that is going to
[3159.9] be a better fit for me. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Listen to your good friends who know you well because I
[3166.3] think they could be really good sounding boards too. Women are intuitive and they're supportive
[3172.4] And hopefully we all have some of those women in our lives.
[3175.5] Having their perspective is really good.
[3177.1] Because sometimes we get in our heads too much.
[3178.9] We need some money to just take us by the ears and be like,
[3181.0] you know what?
[3181.5] You're going to be okay.
[3182.1] That's right.
[3183.9] Take a break from it.
[3185.5] Yes, that is a conversation that we all need to do that self-check-in.
[3189.9] So thank you for sharing that perspective and that advice.
[3192.9] All right, our rapid round.
[3194.6] Just some fun questions.
[3196.8] Real life, because we are not all just career women.
[3199.5] First question.
[3200.6] family and entertainment. Do you have a
[3202.5] favorite go-to family meal or recipe?
[3205.5] I do. It was what I made my kids almost every
[3208.2] year for their birthdays because every time I
[3209.9] asked them what do you want? They said that's
[3211.3] and I did a lot of other nights as well.
[3213.8] It's chicken pecata. Just like that classic
[3216.7] how did then chicken breast with white wine and
[3219.6] lemon and capers and butter. Don't forget the
[3221.9] butter. I'll share the recipe with you. It's
[3224.4] fantastic with any seasonable vegetable. It's
[3227.5] my favorite. Amazing. I can't wait to try it.
[3230.6] Yeah, because we've been talking about fashion. I have to ask you who is your favorite designer to wear?
[3237.4] You know, I have to say I think it's nearly low-tanned and I think it's because
[3244.1] She speaks to my sensibility so well. I love the simplicity of like a really great
[3252.3] button-down shirt or cashmere sweater, but just beautifully done really gorgeous details and then just an amazing
[3260.1] or a leather pant or something along those lines,
[3263.7] she never gets that wrong.
[3265.2] And I throw in one of her amazing belts
[3267.3] and it's just like pure perfection.
[3269.7] Well, maybe love her, our her barrel pants
[3272.4] because the barrel pants feel so light.
[3276.2] They're incredible.
[3277.4] Yes, yes.
[3278.6] That fabric, it's insane.
[3280.4] And I know other designers have tried to mimic it
[3283.7] and it's never gonna happen.
[3285.4] I don't know what kind of magic that is,
[3287.7] but I personally think that she was
[3290.0] was the one who created the barrel look with the Shawn.
[3294.7] And it's just amazing that she created like a whole genre
[3298.5] of pants and jeans with them.
[3301.0] And I probably have like seven or eight pairs at least.
[3304.8] Okay, that's a perfect segue.
[3306.3] What is the best part about your job?
[3308.7] I'm just loving what I do.
[3311.7] There isn't a day that I don't go into the office
[3314.0] and love saying hi to the people
[3316.3] who are there almost always ahead of me.
[3318.8] And then I got a New York and I love being back in New York
[3322.5] because it's my happy place and my best friend lives there.
[3324.9] It's really hard for me to pick one thing.
[3327.1] I guess I would just have to say the people,
[3329.2] which is really saying something because I love the
[3331.7] freaking clothes so much and the accessories of course too.
[3334.4] But the people even more, it's really great.
[3337.3] And I have the intense benefit of being able to just
[3341.3] not work with people I don't want to.
[3342.9] But if I have a great brand, but I don't like the people,
[3345.8] I'm just like, there's a lot of other great brands out there.
[3348.7] but it's really nice that I have that flexibility
[3351.3] because life's too short.
[3352.8] I don't wanna work with shitty people.
[3355.2] Yes, but that's also what's great about being in your role,
[3358.5] being the CEO and founder
[3360.1] that you get to draw the boundaries.
[3362.5] I love it.
[3363.3] Yeah.
[3364.1] All right, one networking tip.
[3365.8] One networking tip is think outside the box a little bit.
[3370.1] For instance, I'm going to New York next week
[3373.3] to go take a couple of meetings with some of my designers
[3376.6] for their holiday collections.
[3378.4] And I had an opportunity to attend a small symposium on AI issues, AI as it pertains to
[3386.2] the fashion industry.
[3388.4] And this isn't necessarily something that you would normally not think about, but I am
[3393.2] interested in the subject of AI in the fashion industry, obviously.
[3398.1] But I also see this as a huge opportunity to be in a very small setting with a lot of
[3402.4] very interesting people, business experts in the field, a lot of business leaders.
[3408.2] And it's a small setting. So we're going to have lots of opportunity for conversation.
[3413.4] So think outside the box and look for other types of social settings where people in adjacent
[3420.6] industries or your industry, but in a unique aspect or a unique portion of the industry are
[3427.5] getting together and try to take advantage of that and through those interpersonal conversations
[3433.5] and connections. Straight-up conversations don't be afraid to. When you make an impression on somebody
[3437.7] through an interesting conversation, it can lead to all kinds of things. I love it. Great perspective.
[3443.4] Final question. What is one non-negotiable for your well-being? I learned it late in life, really late.
[3451.6] I am 57 and only in the last few years did I really figure out that I need to take care of myself
[3459.3] before I can properly be there for everybody else. I've heard a couple people make associations with
[3465.7] that whole airplane air mask thing. You got to put the mask on yourself first before you can take
[3470.3] care of the person next to you. It's true if you're not doing something to restore your own
[3476.7] energy and replenish your own soul.
[3481.1] There's only so much that you're going to really be able to do for everybody else.
[3484.4] And I have really recognized now at this point in my career that it's important for me to be there for everybody else,
[3490.8] not just my family. My kids are all grown up and they're really good on their own, but they still need me in their lives in a different way.
[3497.5] And the people who work with me, they need me to be there and they need the company to be strong and healthy.
[3503.7] And all of that is going to be more successful and more abundant if I am coming from a place of being in a strong space in a healthy space.
[3516.7] So I've learned to do new things. Meditation is important to me and restorative yoga and getting good sleep and just eating really well.
[3528.7] Those things are more important to me than they've ever been before.
[3532.2] They've always played a role in my life,
[3534.0] but I've prioritized them in a different way now.
[3537.3] That is a good reminder for all of us to hear.
[3540.7] Yeah. So Jennifer, thank you so much for all your time,
[3545.3] for all your character.
[3547.3] Like I said from the very beginning,
[3548.9] I admired you for a really long time.
[3551.5] I feel like to me, you are my Molly Ringwald.
[3554.2] Yes. Yes.
[3556.6] And it's just so great to hear you had that vision 24 years ago and to see how you have built this up from that initial store to two stores and to hear where you're headed next it's very inspiring for all of us to hear.
[3574.3] If listeners want to reach out or just want to follow along with what twigs is doing, where can they find you send an email to info as shop twigs.com.
[3585.5] Or you can also go on our social, which is at Shop Twigs on Instagram.
[3590.7] And you can also DM me there.
[3593.5] I'm happy to connect with anybody who is interested in having a further conversation.
[3599.5] No gatekeeping error.
[3600.7] I love working and supporting other women and doing whatever I can to help lift somebody else up.
[3606.5] It's important that we all do that for each other.
[3609.3] Thank you so much, Jen.
[3610.5] It's been a pleasure having you on this show.
[3613.5] And to our listeners, if this episode resonated with you,
[3617.3] subscribe on your preferred streaming platforms.
[3620.1] You never miss another conversation and share this with one woman who needs to hear it.
[3625.8] Every subscriber and every share helps the algorithm get the show in front of more women
[3631.0] asking the same questions that we are.
[3634.0] That's how we grow this community together.
[3636.9] And remember to explore on your own terms because nothing changes.
[3642.1] if nothing changes.
[3645.3] And to our loyal listeners, these are my after-show reflections.
[3650.3] Meeting Jennifer was incredible. There's something really special about meaning someone you've
[3656.2] admired from afar and then having them somehow exceed your expectations once you're actually
[3662.3] sitting across from them in conversation. Jennifer was every bit as cool, chic, and collected
[3671.3] as I'd imagined, but what I didn't fully see until I met her was how kind she is, how thoughtful,
[3679.2] and how she carries that straightforward, no nonsense practicality alongside all of it.
[3685.6] Two things really struck with me from our conversation. The first is how Jen has built her
[3691.7] business so that it actually fuels her creativity and it brings her joy instead of draining it.
[3700.0] Isn't that that search that many of us are on?
[3704.0] And I love how she frames what she does.
[3707.5] She calls it curating instead of buying.
[3710.5] And I completely agree.
[3714.0] I also think what she has done is curate the lifestyle
[3718.4] that she wants.
[3720.1] Sourcing together the right work and opportunities
[3724.3] with the right people, the right ideas,
[3727.9] in a way that's distinctly hers, curated.
[3733.0] The more that I sat with that word after we hung up,
[3736.5] the more I agreed with it.
[3738.9] It's a much more honest description
[3741.2] of how a lot of meaningful work actually gets made.
[3746.5] The second thing that I'm taking away ties
[3749.2] to something Jennifer said towards the end
[3751.3] of our conversation, when you're thinking about a pivot,
[3754.8] The work doesn't have to be done in one big dramatic gesture.
[3759.6] You just look.
[3761.8] Pay attention, do the work, whether it's through meditation
[3766.6] or therapy or through honest conversations
[3770.2] with the women in your life,
[3772.4] or through noticing what's already showing up in front of you.
[3776.4] And the reason that resonated is because I am starting
[3780.9] to do the work like she recommended.
[3783.8] In my work is in the form of the book called The Artist's Way.
[3789.0] If you haven't come across it, the artist's way
[3791.7] is a 12-week book in program by Julia Cameron,
[3796.0] originally published in their early 90s
[3798.5] to help locked artists reconnect with their creativity.
[3802.4] The two core principles or practices
[3805.1] are pretty straightforward.
[3806.7] First is the morning pages.
[3808.5] It's three pages of long-hand stream of consciousness
[3811.5] writing every morning.
[3813.3] And then it's a weekly solo artist state
[3816.3] where you take yourself out to do something
[3818.3] that fills you back up.
[3821.6] I am bringing this up because a couple of different people
[3824.0] in my life have recommended this to me
[3826.5] all around the same time.
[3828.0] And what they told me is that the book
[3830.8] isn't really about becoming an artist at all.
[3833.8] It's about quieting the noise long enough to actually hear
[3837.7] what your own heart has been trying to tell you,
[3841.2] which as it turns out, is exactly what you need
[3844.5] when you're trying to figure out a career move.
[3848.0] As I work through the artist's way,
[3850.5] what I'm really curious to see
[3853.0] with some additional research is where fashion falls
[3859.4] in line with my next potential career pivot.
[3864.6] I love this industry.
[3866.6] And when Jen talked about reaching out to your girlfriends
[3870.4] to get their perspective.
[3872.6] They knew about my upcoming interview
[3875.2] with Jennifer saying how excited I was for this.
[3878.4] And they are like, oh my goodness,
[3880.9] this is totally you all the way.
[3883.8] Even my mother-in-law, she knows twigs
[3886.2] and she knows how much I love it.
[3887.8] And she is like, this is totally you.
[3892.2] You're also gonna hear me talk to some other people
[3895.7] in this industry as well.
[3898.3] I can't wait for you to hear those conversations.
[3901.8] And if there's somewhere in your own version of this in between place, I just want you
[3907.3] to know there's no rush and there's no right way through it.
[3912.3] We're figuring this out together.
[3915.4] If today's episode got you thinking, I'd love to keep that conversation going.
[3920.8] Sign up for my email list at her intentional reset.com.
[3925.2] Also get the latest episodes as they drop, additional resources from our guests and coming
[3930.7] soon access to our community forum where women are keeping this conversation going in between
[3936.8] episodes.
[3937.8] Sign up at her intentional reset.com.
[3941.5] I'll see you there and I'll see you next episode.
[3945.0] Bye now.