[0.0] when I lost my Spotify job and I was kind of freaking out
[2.5] my husband, he was like,
[3.6] hey, you're not your job.
[5.1] If you do lose this title,
[7.3] let's, ooh, executive producer, you're still you.
[10.1] You still have so much value beyond that.
[12.4] So don't forget that.
[13.8] We can get so clingy to our corporate job titles
[17.6] and they can go away in an instant.
[20.8] So remember what you have is a value,
[24.0] whether or not you have the corporate seal
[26.2] of approval on you.
[27.6] Hi there, this is her intentional reset.
[30.4] A podcast for Women in Midlife curious
[32.8] about whether the career they chose 20 years ago
[35.4] still fits.
[36.9] Here from Women Who've Made Pippets, Big and Small
[39.5] discuss the practical realities, the trade-offs
[42.1] and whether the change was worth it.
[44.6] I'm your host Molly Woodruff-Earth
[46.4] and I wanna thank you for joining.
[48.3] If you're new here, welcome.
[50.1] I'm glad you found us.
[51.4] And in between episodes, come join us on Instagram
[54.4] and Facebook at her intentional reset.co.
[57.8] That's.co for guests behind the scenes
[60.9] and what's coming next.
[63.3] Meet Courtney Reimer, founder and principal strategist
[67.0] at Sounds Great, a creative podcast strategy company.
[71.2] Courtney has been decades shaping some
[73.1] of the most influential audio in the world.
[76.0] As a senior executive at Spotify, Audible, MTV,
[79.6] and Discovery, she helped build the podcasting industry
[82.8] from the inside, including executive producing archetypes
[87.0] with Meghan Markle, the show that knocked Joe Rogan
[90.3] off the number one charts of Spotify.
[93.6] Today, as founder of Sounds Great,
[96.2] she helps entrepreneurs, founders, and brands build podcasts
[100.3] that are smart, strategic, and built to last.
[104.2] This year, Courtney also launched her own podcast,
[107.6] Talking the Talk, because it turns out
[110.1] even the expert has to do the scary thing eventually.
[114.8] Outside of the studio, Courtney is a mom to two daughters,
[118.6] a karaoke enthusiast and a devoted dog walker
[122.6] to her feisty pup.
[124.5] I can't wait for you to hear Courtney's story.
[127.2] This is her intentional reset.
[130.8] Hi Courtney, how are you?
[132.3] Hi Molly, I'm great.
[133.6] It's so fun being here the guest on the show
[136.2] instead of the person directing or hosting.
[139.6] So yes.
[141.5] So before we talk about your career and your pivot,
[144.4] I need to ask what is it like to finally be
[147.1] on the other side of the mic?
[149.6] It's so much harder than I thought.
[151.7] But at the same time, it's just as rewarding
[155.0] as I've always said it was to people.
[158.0] So being able to connect to people with your voice
[161.9] and your words and your quirky ways of saying things
[166.8] and having it resonate with them is so fulfilling,
[169.8] but showing up and being the person,
[172.8] because I'm also the producer,
[174.3] and I'm also the editor and the sound designer.
[176.9] It's a lot, but it's super fulfilling.
[180.5] And I actually don't hate the sound of my voice.
[183.5] It's been, that's everyone's number one complaint.
[186.0] I'm like, I'll listen back to my podcast.
[187.9] And I'll say to myself,
[189.7] me sound okay, that's fine.
[191.2] You're, that's great to hear.
[192.5] And it's also refreshing for me to hear
[195.1] that as I'm going through this new endeavor,
[197.8] that it's also a lot for someone as experiences you.
[201.3] So I'm not alone in that.
[203.1] Though you are not.
[204.8] So what is it about podcasting
[207.8] that makes you love this medium so much?
[211.7] Well, it's the same thing that it makes so many people
[214.6] love this medium, which is you describe your show
[217.4] as it's just two girlfriends having a talk.
[220.2] And that's true.
[222.4] Plus, the person who's now listening to us
[225.6] is part of that conversation,
[227.8] whether or not they're actively participating in it.
[230.4] They feel like they're our friend too.
[232.2] They feel like they're one of our girlfriend's boyfriends,
[234.1] whatever friend.
[236.1] I love connecting with people in a way that
[240.0] mere words on a page or a screen or a TikTok dance can.
[245.4] There is literal research to back up this parasocial
[250.5] that the podcast is, that we create a relationship
[254.8] with our podcast hosts that is different from any other medium.
[258.6] And I am already seeing the fruits of those relationships
[262.0] that I'm cultivating by sharing my voice and my thoughts
[265.6] to the world through this medium.
[267.9] Yes, and for the purposes of this conversation,
[270.7] we are gonna talk about how you made that career pivot
[274.3] from working in very well recognized brands
[278.2] like Spotify, Audible, MTV.
[281.2] I do wanna ask you one question about your prior history.
[285.6] Walk us through your archetype chapter
[289.3] working at Spotify.
[290.6] You executive produce Meghan Markle's podcast
[293.5] that knocked Joe Rogan off the top spot.
[296.8] What was it like to be in that room for something that big?
[301.0] What did that feel like?
[302.7] Well, first of all, with a monolith of media
[307.0] like Spotify behind me.
[309.5] I had so much support.
[311.4] So yes, I was executive producer,
[313.3] but I had such a team involved for better or worse, right?
[317.9] For many good reasons, Prince Harry and Meghan
[321.0] have a lot of protection and layers
[323.6] between them in terms of access.
[325.7] And the amount of time you can spend with them
[328.5] on to go too far down that path,
[330.0] but Prince Harry's mom might have been around
[332.6] hadn't not been for the media.
[333.7] So they have a sort of implicit hesitancy about media.
[338.2] So they were very careful about who was in the room
[341.7] and what sort of reasons and conversations
[344.2] we would be having.
[345.7] So one thing, because our access actually
[348.6] to Megan was a little bit limited,
[351.1] we would do a pre-interview with her to get her ideas
[357.4] and get a sense of her point of view on various things.
[360.5] And then we would come back and say to her,
[362.8] I think these are the topics we should cover in this episode
[365.4] based on this conversation that we had.
[367.9] And that would then become the template of the episode.
[370.2] But I will say, I feel she's gotten short-shrift
[374.9] generally in the media.
[376.5] And even by my, we'll call it corporate alma mater Spotify.
[382.5] There was a lot of, he said she said about what happened
[386.7] there when it broke down.
[388.3] And I will just say it wasn't one party failed
[392.2] to do one thing or the other.
[394.3] It was a difficult situation where Spotify had a lot of layers.
[400.1] The Royals had a lot of layers
[402.3] and being able to work through those layers
[404.9] to get things done was a challenge on everyone's side.
[408.8] And so that's a huge thing about what I love
[412.1] about running the show while it is crazy,
[414.8] literally, and figuratively.
[416.4] I am my own boss.
[417.4] I am my own assistant.
[418.9] I am my own tech support.
[420.3] I am my own sound engineer.
[422.5] So it doesn't always work as smoothly
[424.9] as when you have a huge, well-funded environment
[427.9] around you supporting you.
[429.7] But if I have an idea for a podcast,
[432.1] I can record it that same day.
[434.0] I don't have to go through a bunch of different handlers
[436.2] and people's to get it approved.
[437.8] Yes, it sounds like quite the experience.
[441.1] So walk us through what the process was like for you
[445.3] to decide to go out on your own and start your own business.
[450.3] Yeah, it was something that though it now feels like the obvious decision that I should have come to a long time ago.
[457.5] I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into starting my own business because I'd always had,
[462.9] as I said, the support of a huge corporate entity where this person handles IT and this person handles
[469.1] you name it. And I was very daunted by the prospect of running my own business and having to be
[474.9] be reliant only on myself for everything,
[477.9] until I eventually hire people.
[479.6] But listen, I have no shame about this.
[482.7] I've worked in media for all decades of my life
[486.7] up until a few years ago.
[488.3] And I was laid off, I've been laid off many times.
[491.7] And so going back to the Spotify era of my life,
[496.7] what Spotify did when it entered podcasting
[499.5] and wanted to move away from being thought of
[501.9] as just a streaming music platform,
[504.9] they wanted to announce to the world
[506.3] guess what we're also for podcasts.
[508.4] And their way of announcing to the world
[510.7] was to sign all of these very expensive deals
[513.8] with huge names, literal royalty,
[516.7] the partnership that I was on creatively.
[519.5] And when they decided that actually we want to make
[522.8] a return on this investment,
[524.9] the numbers didn't add up and that included my salary.
[527.6] And so when they broke up with the Gimlet studio
[530.9] that I was sort of the glue between Gimlet,
[534.4] which was an acquired podcast studio
[536.7] and the mothership of Spotify.
[538.4] And when they broke up with Prince Harry and Meghan,
[542.0] I was part of that too.
[543.3] And my boss at the time was very empathetic.
[545.8] She said, it's nothing you did or didn't do.
[548.0] It's the portfolio is changing.
[550.1] So I appreciated that.
[551.5] And so, well, it wasn't great,
[555.1] because it's so cool to work at Spotify
[557.1] and with those huge names.
[558.7] I, you know, it wasn't my first time at the layoff rodeo.
[563.3] So but I did what I always do.
[564.9] What I've been laid off and I go out there and I'm like, okay, resume, tap into my LinkedIn
[569.7] network and start working the virtual phones and seeing what's out there.
[575.2] And I interviewed at some really big places and got very close to some very big jobs.
[581.1] One of which got pulled and it felt like, whoa, I've been spending the past like three
[586.7] months of my life immersing myself in your corporate pillars and culture and what it is,
[593.8] the value you want to bring to the world and how I can articulate my experience for anyway.
[598.7] All of that stuff and I just kind of was like, oh, I remember standing in my kitchen.
[605.4] And it was the day I found out I didn't get one of these big jobs and I'm sobbing and I say the
[610.5] kitchen because I had already based on that corporate salary started remodeling my kitchen in my
[615.9] mind. And I was like, oh, no, I've got to live in this kitchen. Because I got so close. And so one of
[622.9] the things they said to me when they said, sorry, we decided to not move forward with the role at all.
[627.8] Maybe we'll bring you on as a consultant, which I took as a throwaway line. But my husband was like,
[632.7] you should be a consultant. You should start your own thing. And this was at a time when
[637.5] Spotify, I was around two, I think of three layoffs in one year, three rounds of layoffs.
[642.7] in the mainstream, these corporate podcasting entities,
[647.7] the storyline was, you know, the sky is falling.
[650.8] Then I would go to, I don't know,
[652.7] my kid's school concert or dinner party or what have you
[656.8] and the adults that I would interact with
[659.1] who were outside of the podcast on-clave said,
[663.4] oh my gosh, my boss wants to start a podcast
[665.3] or I've been thinking of starting a podcast.
[667.2] And so on one side of the business,
[669.3] it's really in contraction.
[671.6] And then on the other, it's really expanding.
[673.7] And so I was connecting the dots.
[675.3] And then I would have conversations in which I would just say
[678.1] some sort of piece of basic knowledge
[679.9] about podcasting best practices.
[682.9] And they would take out an opal can write it down.
[686.0] Like I was Moses.
[687.3] And I have something of value to share with the world.
[690.8] So much that people are writing down what I'm saying.
[693.6] And it just, there is a business model here
[696.5] where I can take everything I've learned in the corporate
[699.0] version of podcasting and bring it to people in an entrepreneurial way in a one on one basis or with
[705.9] brands who want to podcast and so on. So the rest is history and now I have sounds great.
[711.5] Yeah. It's been the best thing ever.
[714.3] I think your story on that pivot is so transferable. I know we are not all going to start a podcast.
[720.0] Even though I have found out through my endeavor that many people do want to start a podcast.
[726.1] However, what is transferable in your story is that all of us have expertise that we've been building over 20 years.
[734.4] Me, for example, I've been in medical education.
[737.9] And so then hearing your story, I'm thinking, oh, okay, so can I take some of my expertise that I've already learned in this adult learning platform and figure out how to offer a consulting service or business based off of what I already
[755.8] bring to the table. And so that's the part that I think is so relatable for other people that have
[761.5] built this expertise in their specific field. Exactly. Can I just underscore that and say,
[767.8] I want anyone who's in the position of, oh my god, I've reached the top of the corporate ladder or
[773.4] I foresee AI's taking my job or the next thing, the next round of layoffs is me. Start thinking
[779.8] now about your skills. Even just bring it up at your next happy hour or something with unrelated to
[785.7] your work and watch how people are truly hanging on your every word on your
[790.9] particular area of expertise. And you'll start like mentally feel that you have
[796.5] something of value outside of what's in your corporate title or job or entity.
[802.0] So I just have to say yes plus one to all of what you just said.
[806.4] Yes. So take us back to actually first starting out because first it's a
[811.4] process of deciding like, oh wait, I never thought about stepping out on my own. You clearly
[816.7] had your husband support and encouragement to step out on your own. But then what was that
[821.9] actual process of making that transition? What were some of the first concrete steps that
[827.0] you had to make when you're launching sounds great?
[830.6] Okay. So I have lots of, I think, transferable lessons learned and wisdom earned all of
[838.2] that to share. I will say one mantra that my husband gave me right when I lost my Spotify
[844.8] job and I was kind of freaking out. My husband, he was like, Hey, you're not your job.
[849.1] If you do lose this title, that's exactly the producer. You're still you. You still have
[854.4] so much value beyond that. So don't forget that we can get so clingy to our corporate job
[860.6] titles and they can go away in an instant. So remember what you have is a value, whether
[868.0] or not you have the corporate seal of approval on you.
[871.4] So I'll just add that.
[872.4] And another way in which my husband was supportive
[876.7] sort of by proxy was that as soon as I took a sip
[881.4] of the Kool-Aid of starting my own business
[883.8] and realizing how wonderful it is to run your own show,
[887.9] I was trying to radicalize everyone
[889.6] against having a corporate job
[891.4] and please don't start your own thing.
[893.5] It's bliss over here,
[895.3] but I would leave this little asterisk
[897.3] that was like I do have the backing of my husband's
[901.8] reliable salary, which is important when you're starting out.
[904.7] You don't know where the next paycheck,
[907.3] it's not even a paycheck.
[908.3] The next influx of cash is gonna come from,
[911.4] but I also had his insurance.
[913.2] And so I would be telling this to friends who got laid off
[917.0] and they have also two kids that family for that they need
[922.0] to make sure healthy and have the care that they need.
[925.7] And so I admit that when I'm like,
[928.0] everybody should do their own things.
[929.7] Very, there are financial considerations.
[932.9] You have to find the right people in your circle
[935.6] that are willing to share with you what it takes,
[938.9] whether it's founding an LLC or something.
[941.0] And Google can help you with that.
[943.0] But just how you identify your value
[947.7] and articulate it to the world and what problem it solves
[951.8] and what service you can provide.
[953.6] So I joined something called the upside, which is a community of consultants and entrepreneurs.
[960.2] And they are the most transparent, generous group of people who give and receive knowledge
[967.7] and insight and advice.
[969.8] And it serves as that corporate water cooler or your corporate brainstorm where everybody's
[976.6] giving ideas.
[977.6] you can recreate that community that you may have
[981.0] in a more traditional job with communities like the upside.
[984.8] And so I think it's really important to compliment
[988.2] what your knowledge is with that of other people
[991.7] who are willing to share it with you.
[993.8] Yes, yes, still creating that camaraderie
[996.5] is not the right word, but that that collegial network.
[1001.4] I mean, it is camaraderie.
[1003.2] The first time I had to get on a call or a Zoom
[1006.2] with a potential client and say,
[1008.4] this is how much it's gonna cost,
[1009.9] and this is how long it'll take.
[1011.8] I was shaking in my boots, and I went the upside,
[1014.8] but this could be true of any community
[1016.2] of people you can surround yourself with.
[1017.8] And I was like, so do I just get on that call and say,
[1021.1] this is how much, here's the number.
[1023.0] Do I say that loud?
[1023.9] Do I, and they were like, yeah, girl,
[1025.5] you say it out loud, and then you stop talking,
[1028.2] and you let him talk himself into it, which he did.
[1031.5] And so you just, you need to have people
[1033.7] that can talk you down from the ledge.
[1036.2] Tell you, I've been through this.
[1038.2] I was a struggle for me, but here's what works for me.
[1041.4] Great insight.
[1042.8] What was the easiest aspect of starting out on your own?
[1047.0] And then conversely, I'm gonna follow up
[1048.6] with what was the hardest?
[1050.6] I would say the easiest was, hmm,
[1054.1] you asked earlier about when did I start to consider the pivot.
[1056.8] I had started when I could feel sort of the tides turning
[1059.6] at Spotify.
[1060.5] like I could just feel a shift in the energy or the vibe
[1063.8] where it wasn't this thing that I felt
[1066.7] I had so much influence over it.
[1068.6] Like I wasn't invited to certain meetings,
[1070.6] just the tea leaves that you're able to read
[1073.1] if you've been in corporate long enough.
[1075.0] And so I hired a career coach
[1077.1] that came highly recommended to people in my network.
[1080.6] And I articulated what I just said to you
[1083.2] and she said, okay Courtney,
[1084.6] it is hard to have the level of influence
[1088.1] over the direction of a business that you're saying to me,
[1092.1] you want in something as big as a Spotify.
[1095.3] Another path I would like you to consider
[1097.5] is doing your own thing.
[1098.9] So together we should map out just what steps you'd need
[1102.6] to take to get closer to what you're hoping to have
[1105.8] that Spotify in terms of a more influential role.
[1109.1] Yeah, but also in parallel,
[1110.8] let's start thinking about what it would look like
[1112.8] to run your own show.
[1114.3] And so she had already planted the seed in me
[1117.7] that here's what when people starting their own business do,
[1121.0] there's this community called the upside
[1122.9] and there are the XY and Z resources.
[1125.8] So I think the theme here is talking to other people
[1129.2] who can help advise you,
[1130.8] being open to being educated and learning from them.
[1135.0] And I forgot how much I love trying new things
[1139.0] and learning new things
[1141.2] and even just learning how to be a successful entrepreneur,
[1145.9] There are so many resources out there that walk you through defining your value proposition
[1151.2] and what is your ideal client.
[1153.2] So that whole experience of what a cool name, you know, doing word association to figure out
[1158.1] what I was going to name my company, that part was fun and easy.
[1162.5] I'm a talker, no surprise by podcast called Talking the Talk.
[1166.7] So talking to people about it and having them validate it, you know, get the word out there
[1172.1] and just start.
[1173.4] were some of the unexpected challenges that you had overcome.
[1177.3] I think the first breakdown I had in my
[1180.6] entrepreneur business owner era was when my laptop melted down
[1185.6] it wouldn't connect to everything was melting down right and in the corporate
[1188.7] environment it was oh call it heat some helpful person will come up to your
[1194.0] desk or whenever walk you through whatever it takes to fix it
[1197.3] and it was at that moment that I realized I am doing all the jobs myself.
[1202.0] I am IT. I am marketing. I am this dev. I'm sales. I'm client relations. I'm also doing the work.
[1211.1] So it will hit you at some point that there is a freedom and a joy in getting to decide what each branch
[1218.1] of your business does. But there's also such a burden of it all being on you. So that was hard and
[1225.4] trying to figure out how do I divide up myself, my energy, my time, into the various lanes that I
[1232.3] have to occupy. This episode is brought to you by her intentional resets, pay it forward
[1239.7] sponsorship, supporting independent women-owned businesses. One day I woke up and discovered
[1246.7] my love of plants and they've become a part of my love language. I was so excited to hear about
[1254.6] Rutsim Bloom, a mobile plant shop, now available in the Twin Cities, founded by Sierra Curtis.
[1262.2] Rutsim Bloom turns plants into an entire self-care experience,
[1267.1] from painting and planting to plant bingo and so much more.
[1271.7] Follow Rutsim Bloom Studio on Instagram. That's Rutsim Bloom underscore Studio on Instagram.
[1279.4] It's also going to be linked in our show notes to see where the mobile plant shop is popping
[1284.2] up near you and mention her intentional reset for 20% off any plant purchase because taking
[1291.6] care of yourself is always worth it. So I think I know the answer but I have to ask, can you
[1298.7] imagine going back to corporate? Maybe a year ago I would have said absolutely not. Like I said,
[1306.3] I had my era of, oh my god you guys, there's another way. Let me tell you about it. You can run your
[1311.5] own thing. But the insurance and reliable income, there is something to it with the added
[1320.4] layer of that husband who had the reliable paycheck also got laid off. And so that has changed
[1326.7] the calculus a little bit. And he's had a hard time finding a suitable other job. But also he
[1335.7] has heard me be radicalized against corporate America. I actually tried out for a job at the New
[1340.0] New York Times audio department, which is like my dream as someone who went to London journalism school and then has been an audio.
[1346.0] They're just the icons for me.
[1347.9] The way they do it is they have you do a trial and some people might be like New York Times doesn't sound like corporate.
[1353.7] It is still it is a corporation and I was like holy crap.
[1358.5] I hated that.
[1359.9] I'll do respect.
[1361.3] They are brilliant people, but I was like the pressure of delivering something for someone else on a deadline.
[1368.2] it racked my nervous system.
[1370.3] And I told my mother-in-law, she knows I worship the New York
[1373.0] Times and she was like, you got a taste of the good stuff.
[1376.2] Because she's been an independent artist for many years.
[1378.7] She used to work in advertising.
[1380.6] And she's like, oh, you're feeling what it feels like to get away
[1383.8] from that.
[1384.4] And so long way of saying I radicalized him against corporate
[1388.5] America too, I would love for him to start a venture that makes
[1391.6] a lot of money.
[1392.6] But for now, God bless him.
[1394.5] He sent me the strongest vote of confidence in my business by saying,
[1399.5] you know what?
[1400.0] I've always wanted to write a fiction book.
[1402.2] I'm going to do that now.
[1403.6] And the fact that he was able to lean back and say,
[1406.4] I trust in Courtney's business and I'm going to take this time to take on a
[1410.3] lot of the kids meals and drive it out and write a book said to me,
[1415.0] okay, he believes in me.
[1416.8] I can believe in me.
[1418.8] Let's do this.
[1419.8] Now it's a lot of pressure.
[1421.4] There's the ebbs and the flows of the revenue.
[1424.5] that are still hard to stomach,
[1428.3] even if you have faith in yourself
[1430.6] and have seen previously,
[1432.0] that there are people who are willing to pay
[1434.0] for what you're selling.
[1435.7] There are times when you're like,
[1436.7] wouldn't be nice if every other Friday,
[1438.7] something just popped into my account.
[1440.6] And it was always nice.
[1442.3] Number.
[1443.5] Yes, absolutely.
[1444.5] I hear you.
[1445.7] The thing that stayed consistent
[1447.5] besides being in the podcast industry
[1449.8] is you continually repositioning yourself
[1453.8] in your career in a different direction
[1456.8] and doing it with ease and confidence and grace.
[1461.1] Yeah, thank you for reminding me of that
[1462.6] because this is a moment in time where I'm like,
[1464.5] oh, one of my clients, it ended.
[1467.3] Another proposal didn't land and so I'm like, huh,
[1471.1] but you're right.
[1472.5] I can decide, actually, okay,
[1474.3] so I'm gonna allocate more of my time towards this
[1477.4] and I get to experiment and see and guess what?
[1480.1] 80% of the time where I pivot to ends up being successful.
[1484.6] And I don't have to wait for stakeholders to say it's okay to pivot,
[1488.9] even green lighting a podcast that Spotify took months.
[1492.5] I decided to make this podcast in January and I launched it in February.
[1496.3] So my gosh. Yeah.
[1500.0] You can't move that fast in corporate America.
[1502.5] I was like, listen, I know myself.
[1505.1] I have to have a removable deadline.
[1507.1] That's why I studied journalism.
[1508.3] I need someone else to enforce deadlines.
[1510.1] That was another hesitation I had
[1511.6] with starting my own business.
[1513.0] I said, I'm going to this conference.
[1515.5] It's a media content conference.
[1517.7] And I need to be able to speak about what I am doing
[1522.7] in content marketing and content creation at this conference.
[1526.5] So if I'm going to pick a date, this is it.
[1530.3] And so I don't recommend deciding one month
[1535.1] and then launching the next.
[1536.3] I thought, oh, I've been doing this forever.
[1537.8] going to be fine. But no, there are reasons that people have said to you, take three months.
[1542.7] I usually say minimum eight weeks. So I tried to cut that off. And I don't recommend it. I literally
[1550.0] it's a month later. And I'm starting to come to out of the stress of moving that quickly.
[1555.2] That being said, it was cool for me to be able to set my own deadline and be able to say this is
[1559.2] when I have to do it and not have to wait for way in from every stakeholder. Yes, because I'm
[1564.0] Yes, I'll only say colder.
[1565.5] Yes, okay.
[1566.7] I appreciate that insight.
[1568.4] You've alluded to some of the practical considerations
[1570.9] less transition, but a little bit deeper into that.
[1573.7] You automatically had the knowledge and credibility.
[1576.7] Was there anything that you had to learn
[1579.1] on the fly with launching your own business?
[1583.1] Yeah, I thought there were a lot of non-negotiables
[1586.5] that were required with starting a business.
[1588.3] You know, you gotta have a quick book.
[1589.5] So you gotta have a CRM,
[1590.7] which is a client relationship management system.
[1593.9] And so I invested in all of these pieces of software
[1598.3] that you think you have to have and yes and no.
[1600.5] But I feel like I needed to learn what not to do
[1607.2] and what was negotiable.
[1609.3] Listen, my QuickBooks account is deeply neglected.
[1613.4] The bookkeeper that I hired for one session
[1615.7] I probably should have hired for more sessions.
[1618.5] There are things that you still can farm out.
[1621.2] Yes, I've had to learn a lot about what you need.
[1624.5] You need the LLC to protect yourself legally
[1627.3] from, let's say, a client says,
[1629.1] I didn't deliver on what I know I did.
[1632.1] We don't want them taking my kids' college fund.
[1634.6] There are certain legal things
[1636.3] and I recommend you follow those.
[1638.6] And you do the things where you keep
[1640.9] your finances separate from your business finances.
[1644.8] Right.
[1645.5] And on that note, when you transitioned from Spotify
[1649.1] to starting your own business,
[1651.3] what was that financial reality of that transition?
[1654.0] Did you have a runway already saved up?
[1656.1] Did you give yourself, okay,
[1658.3] I'm getting big myself, X amount of months to see
[1661.3] if what I have in my mind can actually come to fruition.
[1664.8] I think I did do that, but I was fortunate
[1667.2] that there were a lot of people
[1669.3] who actually came to me.
[1670.6] Like you said, I have these credentials
[1672.3] which they are attractive to people
[1675.7] who want to make a podcast.
[1677.1] And I've always been a networker.
[1679.1] So now when my husband is looking for a job,
[1681.7] he's like, do you know anyone at?
[1682.9] Because he knows I'm a networker.
[1684.9] So anyway, putting that aside,
[1687.1] I had again the husband with the financial security
[1690.1] that helped and he's very good with money
[1691.8] and yes, we have savings.
[1693.9] But I think what helped was,
[1697.2] again, joining a community and getting the info
[1699.7] from people who've been doing this for a while
[1702.6] about how much to price my services,
[1705.1] what it takes to get to X level of revenue.
[1709.0] And I will tell everyone out there
[1710.6] who's thinking of going independent,
[1713.2] you're gonna undercharge and you should not.
[1715.9] Keep raising your prices until it makes you uncomfortable
[1720.1] until everyone says no.
[1722.0] And I've said my prices out of that
[1723.7] to people who find they're like,
[1724.6] really? And I said, yeah, and people pay it.
[1726.7] So I'll just say this is not really a cohesive
[1729.6] or maybe co here in answer, but I think getting advice,
[1734.6] getting input from people on what finances
[1738.5] of starting a business looks like.
[1740.7] And one of those is you're gonna have to spend money
[1742.9] on education.
[1743.9] That was a tough pill for me to swallow.
[1746.2] I found someone named Deb Boulanger,
[1749.1] and her podcast is also called Life After Corporate.
[1753.3] And so she had something called the Launch Lab.
[1756.0] I took that and it wasn't cheap.
[1758.0] And the hardest thing was convincing my husband
[1760.2] who's not a spender by nature, thank God,
[1762.4] because I am, but a lot of people tell me
[1765.5] you have to spend my money to make money.
[1766.7] I went to Columbia Journalism School,
[1768.5] MTV helped pay for it, but we pay for our education.
[1772.0] And that is true when you're starting a business too.
[1774.3] It's a whole other muscle.
[1775.5] There's a whole other set of things you need to know.
[1778.7] And just like you probably paid for college,
[1781.2] you need to pay for your education and running a business.
[1784.2] Yes, appreciate that transparency.
[1787.2] And then last question, retirement insurance, college savings,
[1790.5] all that on glamorous stuff.
[1792.5] How are you navigating these practical realities?
[1795.3] I mean, I'm fortunate that, again,
[1797.3] I married a very financially responsible person.
[1799.7] I went on financial aid for my college.
[1802.1] I worked in the food hall.
[1803.6] I held a paper on my own.
[1805.1] But she came from a family where you start a college fund.
[1808.1] And so we already had a pretty good foundation for all of that.
[1812.7] So again, I felt the psychological and financial safety
[1816.5] to make this pivot.
[1819.2] And the insurance is the one thing
[1821.9] that I still haven't been able to be okay with, to be honest,
[1825.4] is we are on the marketplace, which is
[1828.0] what, whatever it's called, Obamacare, color, what you will,
[1831.7] which I always thought was for other people,
[1834.0] because I always had my glorious corporate benefits.
[1837.2] And let me tell you, it is not great.
[1840.9] That is the number one thing I miss from corporate life
[1844.5] is the beautiful health insurance packages,
[1847.5] the benefits, the healthcare,
[1848.9] or the hardest thing to say goodbye to.
[1850.7] I'm 52, I had a pretty healthy 401K,
[1854.5] I worked at Amazon, I mean,
[1857.0] Audible is a subsidiary of Amazon.
[1859.2] The Amazon stock when I'm feeling really bad,
[1861.5] I go look at my Amazon stock portfolio,
[1863.3] I'm still better.
[1864.1] I know that's kind of a gross thing to say,
[1866.1] but it's, the message here is honestly,
[1869.6] I like to recommend to everyone to leave corporate,
[1872.1] but I had that luxury because I had all of these backstops
[1876.3] and safety nets.
[1877.7] Right.
[1878.6] Do you think you would have done this in your 30s
[1880.8] if you wouldn't have already built your nest egg
[1884.4] during that time?
[1885.5] No, and honestly, thank you for bringing up the age thing
[1887.9] because such a sigh of relief to have my age of 52
[1892.5] be a benefit to me.
[1894.3] It's like a marker of my credibility.
[1896.7] I have been doing this for decades.
[1899.0] And that becomes something I'm not hiding.
[1901.0] You saw my LinkedIn post on 52 today.
[1903.6] I'm proud of it.
[1904.9] And that hits that 52 years of experience
[1907.4] that can be to you, a potential client's benefit.
[1910.7] That's why you are charging the fair market value
[1913.9] of your services at that rate.
[1915.7] Because you are tenured and you do have this vast,
[1919.2] wealth of knowledge that you've built up
[1921.4] through your career.
[1922.9] At 30, I didn't.
[1924.0] Listen, if you're proficient in TikTok and you're 30,
[1927.9] Give me a minute and I will probably hire you.
[1929.8] But otherwise, otherwise you need to take that time
[1933.1] to accumulate that knowledge and that confidence
[1935.7] that it is valuable and you can charge a premium for it.
[1939.8] Yes.
[1940.6] One thing we have not touched on, but as we age,
[1944.3] our family life is a consideration in the choices
[1947.0] that we're making.
[1947.8] So I do want to talk about how has this shift impacted
[1951.5] your family?
[1952.7] You've got two daughters that I'm sure have very busy,
[1956.1] active lives after school. So what's been the family impact since you've made the transition?
[1962.8] Yeah, I mean, first of all, I am going to do this next week. I go and talk to my kids classes
[1968.0] about when they have like someone's going to come talk about their job. So kids can see different
[1972.5] career path or what the future could look like. And I would go in and put up the Spotify logo on
[1977.9] the display and anybody know what this is? That's Spotify. And then Megan Markle's picture. Who's
[1983.1] this, you know, and then, and so that was part of their identity too, right? And so when I lost
[1988.5] this, the job at Spotify, it was a blow to them that I was like, oh, maybe I should have shared
[1993.9] that more gently. But the coolest thing, like it gives me chills. I have laptops stickers with my
[2000.7] branding on it that my kids now have on their laptops, their Chromebooks for school. So when they go to
[2006.7] school, they're my advertising and they get to say, my mom started her own business and runs her
[2013.5] business. What are some of the strengths that have helped you not only build your career but also
[2020.8] start your own business and help coach others to achieve their podcast goals?
[2027.2] The first word that comes to mind is curiosity and it goes back to that love of learning, right?
[2032.7] I have had to learn a new thing, a lot of new things in running my own business.
[2037.9] And I have interest in that. I learn every day. And I've learned when a proposal doesn't land,
[2043.8] or I spent too long on a proposal for a corporate client who ended up saying,
[2048.1] no, thank you. Well, I learned that just because you spend more time on a proposal does not mean
[2053.2] they'll say yes more likely. So I think my constant love of learning and my curiosity
[2058.8] field my interest in journalism and that getting to immerse yourself in a new topic and then
[2063.5] share it with the world. I think that applies to anyone wanting to learn and grow and be able
[2069.6] to pivot at any moment based on those learnings has been helpful and my ability to just say
[2076.7] we're moving on and not get attached to anything. Yeah. I definitely see that with some of the
[2083.1] experiences that you've shared. Well, how we see ourselves is sometimes different than how
[2088.1] other CS. And most of the time, we especially women, we undersell our strengths. So I want to
[2095.5] share something that one of your colleagues shared about you. So this is from Sahar, a mambash
[2102.6] and what she had to say about your strengths. So Courtney super power is her ability to hold both
[2108.7] the big picture and the smallest details at the same time. She brings an incredible level, a strategic
[2115.5] clarity and synthesis, helping us find the threads get specific and stay grounded in our
[2122.2] North Star. What stands out just as much is how generously she shows up. She's deeply invested
[2130.1] andlessly thoughtful in such a genuine cheerleader for the team. I always make you sure we pause
[2136.0] to recognize how far we've come. We truly wouldn't be where we are with the podcast without her guidance
[2142.6] and brilliance and working with her has been an absolute joy.
[2147.1] So I just wanted to say that when I hear this, what comes up for you?
[2151.4] I mean, tears first. Oh my God, so hard.
[2155.6] I want to like bathe in that. I want to put it under my pillow for me. It's just you're right.
[2161.3] People can't see themselves, right? Because I feel like I get buried in the minutia,
[2167.5] but it is in service to the big picture and that she could see that for me.
[2171.1] I would never have been a cheerleader in high school because I was more of
[2174.1] Vilt Freaks and Geekside, but I love to cheer for people when something cool
[2179.1] happens and I just forget to do that. When they reach a milestone and listen
[2184.9] for their podcast it's called the Connection Effect. It is hosted by Bill
[2188.4] Growner who was the chief litigator on the class action lawsuit of the first
[2194.5] responders at 9-11 when they brought their medical case about the
[2199.5] ailments that they experience having in hell all this. So they got amazing
[2204.3] response right out of the gate and not everyone does. Even if you have a huge
[2208.9] following, they don't always convert. So they immediately sent me all this
[2213.7] feedback. They got nice at guys. This is remarkable. Please know that. And again,
[2219.0] you've said earlier that they didn't know what they didn't know. Maybe they
[2221.7] thought that was normal. It's not. And if you do it right, I mean, if you work
[2226.0] work with some of the U.L.'s. You do it right. You will get that kind of feedback. That's
[2229.2] a two- my own horn too much. But I think that is an testament that if you work with someone
[2235.4] that knows what you're doing, that's going to help set you up for success from the get-go.
[2239.0] Yeah. And I will be there to cheer you on always. Yes. Yes. I love that. Thank you for
[2244.4] indulging me in that. I think it's important that we recognize the inherent strengths that
[2249.1] we bring to any endeavor that we are doing, but then also recognize that how others see
[2254.5] ourselves is just as impactful and powerful as well.
[2259.4] So thanks for playing along with that.
[2261.9] Thank you.
[2263.0] All right.
[2263.5] This is our final rapid round.
[2266.1] Because we are not all just career women
[2268.7] we're balancing all the things.
[2270.3] So I have a quick handful of questions
[2272.9] around family kids, career and overall wellness.
[2276.8] You ready?
[2277.7] I am.
[2278.2] Let's go.
[2278.7] What do your kids think you do?
[2281.2] I think they think I make podcasts, which I do.
[2284.3] but I'm also trying to impress upon them
[2286.6] that I'm like a business woman, I'm a CEO,
[2288.8] I'm running stuff and hopefully they will too.
[2291.7] Yes, I love it.
[2292.9] Remind me again, how old are they?
[2294.6] 12 and 14.
[2296.1] Okay, okay, old enough to understand
[2299.3] what's going on and what you're building.
[2301.4] So family go to meal, is there one that survives a crazy week?
[2306.2] Okay, I like this question because my answer
[2309.9] is kind of flipping it on its head.
[2312.0] The family go to meal is the one
[2313.7] I don't have to make.
[2314.7] I love it.
[2316.7] Yeah, my husband who's writing his book, he now makes their dinner.
[2322.1] We eat a separate dinner and they loved it last night.
[2326.0] And he loved that they loved it and I did not have to make it.
[2329.1] It was a spinach pasta something.
[2332.1] So that's my answer.
[2334.6] It sounds great because again, you didn't have to make it.
[2337.7] Yeah.
[2338.7] and gears to career is there one networking tip,
[2343.9] especially for people that don't like networking like me.
[2346.9] Okay, so I would say now that you've given that extra level.
[2350.5] I mean, I already did say you have to do it all the time.
[2352.9] You just have to do it.
[2354.1] And do it in a way that feels right for you.
[2356.9] You and I met virtually, right?
[2358.5] And here we are having a really lovely conversation.
[2361.3] So if you're an introvert or someone
[2362.9] who doesn't wanna go to it,
[2363.9] like the word networking does have some Ick to it,
[2366.9] and I get it.
[2368.2] But if you're networking in the right group,
[2370.9] be selective.
[2372.3] I always give a shout out to Amy Nelson
[2374.7] who has something called the Riveter,
[2376.0] which is very specific to women entrepreneurs.
[2378.5] You find your people and that is the answer.
[2383.3] Is don't just network it anywhere.
[2385.0] Don't network with reckless abandon.
[2387.3] But also you can do it virtually.
[2390.4] So with the right LinkedIn message,
[2393.2] with the right headline on your LinkedIn,
[2395.7] If you are yourself, branded in a way that's inviting other people to network with you,
[2401.7] if you have a value proposition on your page that says, Hey, I want to know that person
[2407.5] that will help too.
[2408.5] And that's almost like passive networking, just presenting yourself in a way that's magnetic.
[2412.6] I had a guy who we both on the same online networking call.
[2416.8] And he messaged me afterwards and his opening line, he probably uses it on everyone, but
[2421.2] it was great. He said, I think life is about time and relationships. And you're someone
[2426.9] I wanted to give some time to. And I think we should have a connection. I think we could
[2431.2] benefit from a relationship. And that message, I get so many messages in my LinkedIn, but
[2437.7] him saying that really resonated with me. It might not with everyone, but I agree. So be
[2443.6] thoughtful.
[2444.6] Yes, be thoughtful, be intentional and do it in a way that fits your personality or your
[2449.5] style. Yep, I love it. In terms of wellness, is there one non-negotiable for your ball bean?
[2456.0] The morning pages are from what's called the artist's way by an important, because I'm
[2461.1] Perry Menopausal. I can't remember her name. But I had, again, Deb Boulanger, who a coach that I
[2467.6] paid for. She had a lunch lab. One of her piece of her curriculum was try the morning pages,
[2473.7] and that's you first thing in the morning before you checked your email or anything. You sit
[2478.5] down with a pen and paper. You just dump out whatever's in your brain. And it's like a deep
[2484.3] clean of your brain. And almost every single time I do it, something valuable comes out of it.
[2490.0] It's not complete senses. There's no grammar. It's whatever, right? But it gets all that that's
[2496.4] swirling around in your head out onto paper. And then you get clarity. And that's actually how
[2501.1] I decided to have my podcast after resisting it for so long. It just came out of my morning pages.
[2505.7] And so here we are.
[2507.5] Well Courtney, thank you so much for this conversation.
[2510.1] And for being so honest about the parts that nobody sees
[2513.3] behind the scenes of building your business,
[2515.6] you help people do the hard thing for a living.
[2518.7] And then you went and did the hard thing
[2520.9] for a living yourself with starting your podcast
[2523.7] on top of your business.
[2525.3] And I just really appreciate you sharing your story.
[2528.8] Where can people find you if they want to follow the work
[2532.2] that you're doing or listen to your podcast?
[2535.3] Well, first, thank you for having me.
[2536.8] It's blissful to be able to be on the other side,
[2539.1] just talking without having to worry
[2541.1] about how am I gonna edit this or get out into the world.
[2544.0] So thank you, Molly.
[2545.1] People think this is crazy.
[2546.4] I may stop saying this is the way to find me,
[2548.9] but go ahead and email me.
[2550.8] I might not get back to you right away,
[2552.9] but if you're someone who's thinking about a podcast
[2556.3] or has a podcast and is ready to give up,
[2559.6] I've made it my mini mission to help women stay in podcasting.
[2563.3] As you said, my greatest achievement with that Meghan Markle podcast, while it was great
[2568.8] to make a podcast about women with an incredible woman, it knocked Joe Rogan off the top.
[2575.7] I want to see more women in podcasting.
[2577.9] So especially if you are a woman who's thinking about a podcast or has a podcast, I want
[2583.4] to help you email me at soundsgreatstrategy.com.
[2588.5] If you're just listening, not watching, it's Courtney with a C. I am not a Kardashian.
[2593.2] COURT and EY at soundsgreatstrategy.com.
[2598.5] And I will attest that when you email her,
[2601.6] she responds to your emails.
[2604.6] So look at us here.
[2606.1] That's great Courtney, thank you so much.
[2608.0] We will put your email in the show notes.
[2610.5] We'll also make it available on the website
[2612.6] so you can find out more about Courtney's
[2615.9] sounds great launch podcast accelerator on our website.
[2619.8] Thanks Molly, I really appreciate it.
[2621.5] And good luck with your podcast.
[2622.9] I'm so proud of you for doing this.
[2624.5] It's gonna do great, I can tell.
[2627.1] Great.
[2627.9] Thanks again.
[2628.9] And to our listeners, if this episode resonated with you,
[2632.7] subscribe on your preferred streaming platforms,
[2635.4] you never miss another conversation
[2637.8] and share this with one woman who needs to hear it.
[2641.3] Every subscribe and every share helps the algorithm
[2644.2] get the show in front of more women
[2646.4] asking the same questions that we are.
[2649.4] That's how we grow this community together.
[2652.3] and remember to explore on your own terms
[2656.0] because nothing changes, if nothing changes.
[2661.3] And to our loyal listeners,
[2663.0] these are my after-show reflections.
[2666.4] I really wanna thank Courtney for saying yes
[2669.3] to this conversation.
[2671.3] Full transparency, she ended up being my second interview ever
[2677.0] after some less men's scheduling shifts.
[2680.2] In all men, I was nervous.
[2682.6] Courtney has built her career in podcasting and has a master's in journalism from Columbia.
[2690.4] So sitting across from her and asking her to share her story on a podcast, I'm just starting
[2697.2] that definitely took some breathwork. She brought so much grace to our conversation and I'm just
[2704.8] very grateful. So Courtney, thank you again. Something that Courtney's husband said to her
[2712.6] really stuck with me and that is that she is not her job title. Her worth isn't tied to her role.
[2722.0] If you caught the last episode, you know that's one of the things that I'm actively trying to
[2726.8] let go of right now. And it takes some unlearning. I was proud of the role I had. I was proud of the
[2733.6] the company I worked for and the work mattered.
[2736.8] It had impact, but there are things that matter more to me,
[2741.8] my family raising good humans and being a good human myself.
[2747.2] So I keep reminding myself, at the end of the day,
[2751.2] the title isn't the thing.
[2754.2] No one remembers your title.
[2757.8] And isn't it strange how the universe
[2760.5] sends you a sign right when you need it.
[2764.8] Around the same time, my aunt passed away.
[2769.6] I was not especially close to her,
[2772.6] but I watched my mom grieve her sister.
[2776.8] My mom has always been the most responsible adult
[2779.7] in any room.
[2781.4] So when she shows vulnerability, I pay attention.
[2786.0] And hearing her grief, her sadness broke my heart.
[2790.5] But what struck me as she talked through everything that came next was this.
[2796.5] I have no idea what my aunt did for a living.
[2800.5] And in those final days, no one was talking about that.
[2804.5] They were talking about who she was, how she showed up, what she meant to people.
[2811.5] And that landed at exactly the right moment.
[2815.5] Not that her passing is about me.
[2818.5] me it isn't. But it reinforced something that I needed to hear at that moment. Don't chase
[2826.9] the title for the sake of what other people think. Don't be afraid to pursue what feels
[2832.0] right for you right now because in the end, one matters is that you were a good person.
[2840.6] And that you showed up for the people you love.
[2844.4] If today's episode got you thinking, I'd love to keep that conversation going.
[2849.6] Sign up for my email list at herontentionalreset.com and you'll get the latest episodes
[2855.0] as they drop additional resources from our guest and access to bonus content in our community
[2861.3] forum coming soon where women are keeping this conversation going in between episodes.
[2867.6] Sign up at herontentionalreset.com.
[2870.2] I'll see you there and I'll see you next episode.
[2874.4] Thanks everyone.